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Bulgarian Artillery in WW1

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  • MCP
    replied
    Thanks once more for the corrections and the additions.
    Only a general remark before I begin a more detailed discussion.
    I think Kosar books are very interesting, they may be the best source for artillery in 20th century, but expecially with minor powers there are some mistakes (and some problems). I listed some of them concerning Serbian Army below. As for Bulgarian Army too there are some fact not clear. For instance about 150mm M. 1913. B.A. used commercial Krupp M-1913 field howitzer: this is sure. But when did it obtain it ? And during WW1 did B.A. obtain any German Army Krupp 15cm sFH-13 ? This is not clear.

    I believe that the first photo to the top left of this series is actually of a 75mm Krupp field gun, possibly even a 7.7cm FK-96 supplied by Germany after Bulgaria's entry into the war. I say this because the weapon is too small and the shell is too small and in cartridge form.
    I too was perplex about this identification, but I found this in two different sources (that of course may have depend from the same source).

    Apparently there was a Schneider commercial 105mm QF field howitzer that was purchased by the Romanians, probably in relatively small quantities, designated the M-1910 105mm field howitzer (Canon de 105mm court mle. 1910 Schneider in French...
    Thanks, but the problem is : did Bulgarian Army obtained some of these howitzers AFTER World War I. some sources affirmed that it did, but it seems very difficult.

    The drawing here is of the modified 10.5 cm leFH-98/09 seen below. The original leFH-98 did not have a recoil system.
    Correct.

    The second howitzer illustrated is actually the Krupp commercial 10.5cm M-1912/16 field howitzer...
    Thanks.

    I believe that the above mentioned Schneider 120mm 'M-1909' field howitzer was actually designated as the M-1907, of which Bulgaria apparently took delivery of 36 equipments; the 15cm sFH-07 was purely a prototype and never reached series production or service use.
    The designation of Bulgarian and, generally speaking, "little powers" guns varied greatly. Krupp mountain guns used by Bulgarian Army was designed as M. 05 by Kosar, but usually it is designed as M. 1904. Differences like this are many. The Schneider 120mm field howitzer is usually designed M. 1911 (or M. 1910) in Serbian service and M. 1909 in Bulgarian service. I think this is linked with the year when the howitzer arrived in Bulgaria or in Serbia. As for 15cm sFH-07, it was only an exemple for an howitzer with shield.

    The only photo of a 25cm sMW n/A (new pattern Minenwerfer) here is the one in the upper right hand photo, the others are all of the older 25cm sMW a/A, short barreled pattern.
    In Herbert JÄGER, German Artillery of World War One, pages 69-70 I found the identification that I proposed :
    second and third : new pattern
    first and fourth : old pattern.

    I think you will find that the photos of the dismantled guns behind the horses are in fact German Krupp 15cm sFH-02s...
    Yes. It is exacly what I wrote.

    Your photos all indicate that these are 90mm de Bange guns, not 80mm guns.
    Serbia also used the 90mm de Bange gun.
    Serbia did not use 90mm de Bange guns. This is a mistake that I found in many sources (in Kosar too) but thanks to The Edge I could check Serbian official sources and they state without any doubt that Serbian Army use only 80mm gun. The only problem is : it was the French horse artillery gun or a different guns built for Serbian shortening the barrel of French 90mm gun ?
    I forgot to correct the title of the pictures (at first I too thought that Serbian Army used 90mm guns).

    The first photo on the left here is more likely of a battery of Schneider 70mm M-1907 mountain guns. Note recoil systems and shields. Similar weapons were exported to Italy, Portugal and Spain.
    Yes, it is exactly what I wrote : 0S70GbQF means Schneider 70mm Quick-firing Mountain gun.

    I will wager that the field howitzer on the left is actually a 120mm M-1907 or M-1911 due to the slenderness of the ordnance and the relative height of the carriage to the man and the lighter construction of the wheels. The 150mm M-1911 used heavier wheels (characterized by their wooden rims distinctive taper towards the wider steel tire, see the other photo at right for this) similar to those used on the later 155mm C15S and C17S.
    Maybe. This is the identification I found.

    Unless we have inadvertently found an actual photo of the above gun (which was L/28, not L/26) the photo is of a 120mm mle. 1878 de Bаnge gun (which was L/27). The weapon as described in the specs. above was called the "Canon de 120mm long L/28" by Schneider. My source says that the gun had a shield. This was used as the M-1895 in Bulgaria (24 delivered). Serbia took delivery of 16 of these guns.
    The long gun used by Serbian Army was 120mm L/26. I’m sure of this. Thanks to The Edge, I could check Serbian official sources - expecially Serbian Military Reform 1897-1900 that have a very very detailed desciption (with datas) of 120mm guns, 120mm howitzers and 150mm mortars bought by Serbian at the end of the 19th century. So it seems it was not the same gun adopted by Bulgarian Army.

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  • SASH155
    replied
    Deleted message, moved further forward in thread.
    Last edited by SASH155; 11-01-2006, 07:24. Причина: Автоматично сливане на двойно мнение

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  • SASH155
    replied
    dibo написа
    Some corrections - in 1906 the contract with Schneider was for 2 240mm and 2 100mm guns. The two big guns arrived in late 1909 and were put in a specially prepared (however badly chosen and built) fixed position. Big drawback of the guns was their limited range of fire - 10.5 km. The 2 100mm guns were ''Ship'' type (maybe smiliar to those on "Nadezhda"?) according to the Bulgarian documents and were storaged until 09.1912, when these two along with the 2 100mm guns from the "Nadezhda" formed two additional 100mm batteries to defend the Varna harbour. 13 batteries with 26 old guns (most likely old Russian or Krupp guns of the 1870-s vintage, given that thier recorded range was 3 km.) from the Schumen and Vidin fortress battalions plus 1 65mm and 1 56mm guns supplemented the defense of Varna coastline during the 09.1912.
    In 1916 several two-guns batteries were formed from captured guns (150mm and 250mm). Also 3 230mm Russian mortars captured in Serbia were installed near Galata.
    :sm100: I believe the above "56mm" guns were in fact 57mm caliber. The "230mm" would be the Russian 9 inch or 228mm caliber and the "250mm", if of Russian origin, would be 10 inch or 254mm.

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  • dibo
    replied
    MCP написа
    Unfortunately I was not able to find adequate informations about Bulgarian coast artillery. So I only list here what I could know, hoping that anybody add what is missing in my account.
    In 1888 Bulgarian Danube Flottilla received by Russian Army five 65mm guns (I think they were built by Schneider, since this is a typical French calibre, often used in ships armed with Schneider guns).
    In 1897 Bulgarian Black Sea Fleet obtained two 240mm L/45 Schneider guns, that were put at Evkinograd in order to defend the prince’s palace there and to protect the Varna bay from ennemy fleets’ raids.
    At the beginning AFIK Bulgarian coast artillery had only these seven guns to defends the coastline. Since Turkish fleet had the full controll of Black Sea, coastal defences were reinforced with 13 batteries delivered from the Shumen (2nd) and Vidin (3rd) fortress battalions.
    In order to increase the defences of Varna Bay the two 100mm guns of torpedo gunboad Nadezhda were removed from the ship and given to coast artillery, but in November 1912 they were mounted on the ship again.
    During the war Turkish Navy made some raid along Bulgarian coastline, shelling the ports and sometimes landing little detachments, that were always easily repelled. The liberation of Thracia caused a lot of problem to Bulgaria, since it had to defend the Aegean Sea coastline, even if it had not even a little ship there. Turkish Fleet tried to take advantage of its superiority landing X Provisional Corps (31st and 32nd Infantry Division with 15.000 rifles, 16 machine guns and 48 guns) at Sarkoi in order to overtake Bulgarian 4th Army deployed in the Gallipoli peninsula. This amphibious invasion failed thanks to the reaction of Macedonia and Odrin Volunteer Corps (February 8 and 9, 1913).
    At the end of the war Dedeagach and Portolago harbours were defended with a little group of 120mm and 150mm guns from fortress artillery.
    At the outbreak of the World War the of Bulgarian coast artillery was not better than in 1912. It is very unlikely that in 1912-15 Bulgaria could obtain new coast guns, so in order to defend the Black Sea and the Aegean coastlines there were only about twenty guns, most of them coming from fortress artillery. Consequently two 100mm guns of torpedo gunboad Nadezhda were removed from the ship. I don’t know where they were placed, but during the war there was a battery of two 100mm guns at Balchik. I don’t know wether they were the guns from Nadezhda or there were other 100mm guns in service with Bulgarian Artillery at that time.
    During the war German Army delivered some 254mm and 152mm Russian guns and in 1916 Burgas was reinforced by a new battery and Varna by two new batteries. In mid 1916 Bulgarian Navy obtained also four 87mm improvised anti-aircraft guns.
    In 1918 most of the 312 guns of Bulgarian 4th Army were used for coast defence (according with Stefan Noikov, Belomorska otbrana alone had 97 guns). 4th Army used also some guns captured in Greek Thracian fortress.
    Some corrections - in 1906 the contract with Schneider was for 2 240mm and 2 100mm guns. The two big guns arrived in late 1909 and were put in a specially prepared (however badly chosen and built) fixed position. Big drawback of the guns was their limited range of fire - 10.5 km. The 2 100mm guns were ''Ship'' type (maybe smiliar to those on "Nadezhda"?) according to the Bulgarian documents and were storaged until 09.1912, when these two along with the 2 100mm guns from the "Nadezhda" formed two additional 100mm batteries to defend the Varna harbour. 13 batteries with 26 old guns (most likely old Russian or Krupp guns of the 1870-s vintage, given that thier recorded range was 3 km.) from the Schumen and Vidin fortress battalions plus 1 65mm and 1 56mm guns supplemented the defense of Varna coastline during the 09.1912.
    In 1916 several two-guns batteries were formed from captured guns (150mm and 250mm). Also 3 230mm Russian mortars captured in Serbia were installed near Galata.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by dibo; 01-01-2006, 20:32.

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  • MCP
    replied
    Excuse me, Odrin is Adrianople. The fortress was conquered by Bulgarian Army in 1913 and there Turkey had its 18 10cm guns and 18 15cm howitzers.
    I know that Germany sent a lot of guns to Bulgarian after the beginning of WW1 (for Bulgaria October 1915), the problem was about was sent before the war. BTW do you know anything about a 75mm Schneider mountain not quickfiring gun that Bulgaria acquired in 1897 (I believe this since it is a M. 97 gun)?
    I saw the Landship site, that is really interesting. :tup:

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  • SASH155
    replied
    MCP написа
    I corrected some of the mistakes. Thanks to SASH155.
    Unfortunately there are still a lot of point not clear!
    :tup: Thanks for taking my advice on these. One additional note: That Schneider 150mm M-1912 howitzer (similar to the Russian 152mm M-1910 g.) was the one exported to Bulgaria and Serbia as well as to Romania. These were probably the 14 150mm howitzers you are wondering about that were delivered between 1912 and 1915, just barely in time to make it into the war. In addition it makes absolutely no sense to me that it would be the "Boche" who transferred captured ( by whom? and where and what was Odrin?) Turkish 10cm L/30 field guns to Bulgaria. After all, the Turks were an ally of Germany (and incidentally Bulgaria after 1915), and I am sure that they would have taken umbrage that the Germans transferred to a third party any guns they had duly ordered from Krupp. Did Bulgaria possibly capture these 10cm L/30 guns directly from the Ottoman Turks during the Balkan Wars of 1912-1913? Due to what Franz Kosar says, I still believe Bulgaria took delivery directly from Germany (in 1915 or early 1916?) of new build or ex-German Army 10cm K-14s just as they took delivery of several ex-naval 15cm K i.R. L/40s and L/45s for coast defense (see the L/40 and L/45 guns in Varna or the L/45 at the museum in Sofia). Also, you are right that "Canet" frequently shows up in connection with Schneider, but it is far from clear to me when "Canet" was used (probably only when his design elements were incorporated on a piece) instead of just simply Schneider-Creusot or even Schneider "tout court". Do not forget to look at my further notes on French arty in Salonika that I wrote yesterday. And also take note of my comments on the 15cm Krupp M-1913 howitzer. As far as the Russain ordnance goes, I will have to write up something as well as scan my photos as they are still in print form. Glad to be of service; don't neglect to look at Peter Kempf's fairly new "Landships" forum where I have posted quite a bit on artillery from all nations, including Bulgaria.

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  • MCP
    replied
    I corrected some of the mistakes. Thanks to SASH155.
    Unfortunately there are still a lot of point not clear!

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  • MCP
    replied
    To post 125:
    The last photo in this series is actually of a German Krupp 15cm sFH-93 field howitzer, which may look somewhat like the 24 pounder short gun, but they were in fact totally different.

    Thanks again. My source was again Артилерийска материална част в Българската Армия 1878-1990.
    But can I ask that you correct my datas for Russian old pattern guns (and if possible add some pictures)? I'm not well informed about Russian artillery, expecially about XIX century guns. :sm186:

    Thanks

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  • dibo
    replied
    MCP написа
    To post 123:
    Thanks. I found that photo in and Артилерийска материална част в Българската Армия 1878-1990, Sofia 1998, p. 36. I thought that this book was accurate.
    Actually it is not, as most of it is based on photoes from the Military History Museum in Sofia and unfortunately the guys working there are mostly administrators and not reasearchers and the descriptions they put on the guns there are not accurate.

    BTW, this is a very good discussion and I will join as soon as I can.

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  • MCP
    replied
    To post 123:
    Thanks. I found that photo in and Артилерийска материална част в Българската Армия 1878-1990, Sofia 1998, p. 36. I thought that this book was accurate.
    As for Putilov howitzers and in general for Russian guns, Bulgarian Army may have captured some of them in Romania or/and have received some from Germany. I Know that Germany sent some Russian guns for the defence of Bulgarian coastline. But I have not many informations about Russian guns.

    To post 124:
    I agree with every your word. I think I copied wrongly from my sources.

    To post 125:
    Yes. Another lapse.

    To post 126:
    I take it that the 34 Gruson Werke 120mm howitzers were all of the special fortress type in a rotating armored turret/cupola?
    AFIK, yes.

    I am totally unaware of any Gruson 12cm field howitzers.
    Me too.

    This appears to actually be the later 150mm Schneider M-1912 field howitzer, which was in effect identical to the Russian 152mm M-1910 g. (Schneider) field howitzer. The type fits the time frame also, as the modified M-1897/05 field howitzer was probably no longer in production by August 1914 and did not in the least resemble the weapon in this photo.
    Thanks. My knowledge of Rumenian artillery is not great.

    Also, be careful how you throw the name "Canet" around in conjunction with the name of the Schneider company, which is correctly known in most circles as Schneider-Creusot.
    I found everywhere Schneider-Creusot (from the place of the factory) or Schneider-Canet (from the name of the designer (like Schneider-Danglis or Schneider-Deport).

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  • MCP
    replied
    First, thanks for so many interesting corrections and considerations.
    Mine is a work in progress and I'm sure there are a lot of mistakes (I have already correct some of them) andevery help is greatly welcomed (expecially about Russian artillery).

    Now I try to give some answers.

    To post 121:
    Also, does anyone have a photo of the Schneider 120mm M-1895 L/28 field gun above? I don't know what one even looks like.
    Unfortunately I have not. I'm still looking for it.

    The reported 12 cm Krupp M-1895 L/30 gun in one of the photos above is too large (look at the shell) and is actually a Krupp 15cm M-1895 L/30 weapon.
    Thanks.


    To post 122:
    Some problems arose from a Bulgarian point of view:

    If I understand correctly Bulgaria received before WW1 three kinds of 150mm heavy howitzers:
    Krupp M-1906, Schneider M-1897, Schneider M-1912.
    The problem is that AFIK in 1915 Bulgarian Army had only 24 howitzers Schneider M-1897 and 14 howitzer of a different kind, that was obtained after 1912 (since at the beginning of the Balkan War, there were only the Schneider M-1897 ones). This is the problem. :sm186:

    As for 10cm guns, the probem is :
    Germany really delivered to Bulgaria some 10cm guns shortly after the war began, they may be 10cm Kanone 14, but if Germany deliverd them only after the war begun, they may be the Turkish guns captured in Odrin. In fact I'm not sure that Bulgarian Army captured any of these guns, but ASIK it captured 14 heavy howitzers. This makes even more confused the problem of the 150mm howitzers.

    Russia did not use 150mm caliber weapons; theirs were chambered for 152mm.
    Yes, if I wrote differently, it was a lapse.

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  • SASH155
    replied
    MCP написа
    Gun model : 24 pounders long gun
    Calibre : 152.39mm L/21
    Weight : 2108 kg
    Weight with breech mechanism : 2235 kg
    Weight in action : 4500 kg
    Weight of the platform : 1370 kg
    Tube Lenght : 3.230 m
    Shell Weight : 29 kg / 30.7 kg / 35.1 kg / 35.8 kg
    Case shot Weight : 35.2 kg
    Shrapnel Weight : 34.9 kg
    Muzzle Velocity : 325 m/s
    Max. Range : 5300 m
    Remarks : Russian bronze long gun supplied in 1877-78; it seems that in 1906 Bulgarian Army had ten 24 pdrs long or short guns.


    Gun model : 24 pounders short gun
    Calibre : 152.39mm L/14.3
    Weight : 1435 kg
    Weight with breech mechanism : 1533 kg
    Weight in action : 3500 kg
    Weight of the platform : 1370 kg
    Tube Lenght : 2.180 m
    Shell Weight : 29 kg / 30.7 kg / 35.1 kg / 35.8 kg
    Shrapnel Weight : 34.9 kg
    Muzzle Velocity : 225 m/s
    Max. Range : 3800 m
    Remarks : Russian bronze short gun shipped in 1877-78; it seems that in 1906 Bulgarian Army had ten 24 pdrs long or short guns.


    Gun model : 24 pounders mortar
    Calibre : 152.39mm L/9
    Weight : 1425 kg
    Weight with breech mechanism : 1572 kg
    Weight in action : 3400 kg
    Weight of the platform : 1200 kg
    Tube Lenght : 1.350 m
    Shell Weight : 29.7 kg / 30.7 kg
    Muzzle Velocity : 231 m/s
    Max. Range : 3600 m
    Elevation : + 45° / -°5°
    Remarks : Russian bronze mortar shipped in 1877-78; it seems that in 1906 Bulgarian Army had 4 of such mortars.
    :not: The last photo in this series is actually of a German Krupp 15cm sFH-93 field howitzer, which may look somewhat like the 24 pounder short gun, but they were in fact totally different. The 24 pounder (152mm) short gun was designated the M-1867 g. and is actually the gun which can be seen mounted on the field mount shown on top of the pedestal in one of the photos (it was also used as a fortress gun on a different type of mount); the long gun, however, is not here at all. It was considerably larger, and was designated the 6 inch (152mm) M-1867 g. 190 pud. In addition there was a later 6 inch (152mm) M-1883 g. "mortar" (field howitzer) which was really just another member of the later M-1877 series of artillery pieces. I have photos of all these types that I took in St. Petersburg several years ago and I also have several Russian language sources that clarify matters considerably, even though my Russian is poor.

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  • SASH155
    replied
    MCP написа
    In 1913, at the end of Interallied War, in Rumania there were two great systems of fortifications :
    1. the forts around Bukarest which convert the capital to a great entrenched camp.
    2. the works constructed on the line of the River Sereth, directed against an advance from the east and northeast.
    In addition, in Dobrudja there was a bridge-head at Cernavoda guarding the railway bridge over the Danube.
    In 1914-16 some guns and howitzers were used to arm the newly aquired fortress of Silistria and the so-called Tutrakan bridge-head, to build the siege artillery batteries and to reinforce divisional artillery with 53mm QF guns.

    The fortifications of Bukarest consisted of 18 detached forts with 18 intermediate batteries, situated at an average distance of 9.5 km from the centre of the town. The total perimeter was around 72 km. The forts were commenced in the year 1885, and completed and fully armed in 1896. The original scheme was prepared by General Brialmont, but it was considerably modified in order to reduce the cost. A circular railway, with a military road and a telegraph or telephone line alongside, conneced all the forts.
    The forte are situated as follows :
    - on the left bank of the Dambovita river: Chitila, Mogosoia, Otopeni, Tunari, Stefanesti, Afumazi, Pantelimon, Cernita and Cotzelu.
    - on the right bank of the Dambovita river: Leordeni, Popesti, Berceni, Jilava, Broscariu, Magurele, Bragadir, Domnesti and Kiaina.
    The works were of six different types, and their armament varies accordingly. They were constructed to resist high explosives, and armour has been largely used. The majority bave dry ditches. The intermediate batteries were armed with 120mm guns and howitzers. The armament of the forte consisted of 150mm guns, 210mm howitzers and 53mm quickfiring guns. All were mounted in turrets or cupolas, the 150mm guns in pairs, the remainder singly. As a rule, the forts had 3 - 150mm guns, 3 / 4 howitzers, and 4 / 6 quick-firing guns.
    The works was manned by Fortress Artillery Regiment with headquarters at fort Chitila. The fortifications were commanded by the Governor of Fortress of Bukarest, in august 1916 Div.Gen. Mihail Boteanu.

    The fortified line of the Sereth, covering a front of about 72 km, consisted of the entrenched camps of Galatz in the southeast and Focsani in the north-west respectively, and of the bridge-head of Nomoloasa at the centre.
    The fortifications were commenced in the year 1889 on a plan prepared by Major Schumann of the Gruson Works, and were completed in 1893.
    The fortified region was commanded by of a general of division, in august 1916 Div.Gen. Petre Nasturel with headquarters at Galatz. Many of the guns in 1914 were moved from the forts in order to arm the Siege artillery Regiment.

    The fortifications of Galatz are on the left bank of the Danube, at some distance from the river. There were 10 groups of works arranged in 3 lines with frontal and flank defence. The total extent of front was 14.5 km.
    The names of the groups are Sereth, Sendreni Malina, Barbosi, Smardan, Covureni, Filesci, Trajan, Raves and Brates.
    There were a total of 51 batteries. The armament of the first and second lines was composed of 53mm. QF guns, the guns of the first line were on travelling carriages mounted in concrete emplacements in groups of three, those of the second line were mounted in small disappearing turrets, six being grouped together to form a battery. The third line had armoured batteries of 120mm Gruson howitzers mounted in pairs, but three batteries had three howitzers, and one battery four. The works were manned by 1st Fortress Artillery Battalion.

    The Nomoloasa works were upon the left bank of the Sereth. The bridge-head covered several bridges, and barrred the Jassy-Galatz road and railway.
    The works, arranged in two lines, consist of 8 groups situated about 9.5 km from the town of Nomoloasa with a total extent of front of 11 km. There was an interval of about 1,000 to 1,400 yards between the groups, each of which had 2 / 3 batteries in the first line and 2 in the second line. There were a total of 30 batteries.
    The names of the groups were: Calieni, Serbanesti, Tecusi, Calmatnin, Mikai-Braoul, Tudor Vladimerescu, Galati and Conachi. The armament was 53mm QF guns on travelling carriages, in the first line, 3 for each group, and 120mm howitzers in pairs in armoured turrets for the second line. The total armament was 72 - 53mm guns and 16 - 120mm howitzers. The works were manned by 2nd Fortress Artillery Battalion.

    The entrenched camp of Focsani was on the right bank of the River Putna, a tributary of the Sereth, and barrred the
    road and railway Roman-Buzeu-Bucharest. The general trace of the works is a semi-circle, with a total extent of about 21 km, and distant about 6.5 to 9.5 km from Focshani.
    The works are arranged in 3 separate lines giving frontal and flank defence, and numbered 71 batteries, distributed in 15 groups and 1 independent group (first line - 41 batteries, second and third line 15 batteries each).
    The names of the groups were Odobeshti, Vrancea, Pancia, Baia, Marasesci, Resbviene, Furceni, Petresce, Venatori,
    Putna, Jorasti, Siefan Cel Mare, Mandresti, Braila, and Milcov. The works of the first line were converted emplacement armed with 37mm QF guns on travelling carriages, each battery having five guns. The second line was armed with 53mm QF guns in disappearing turrets arranged 6 to a battery. The batteries of the third line contained one 120mm Krupp gun and two 120mm howitzers. The independent group to the north-west of Focshani, covering a crossing over the River Putna, contained 4 Gruson 120mm howitzers.
    The total armament was 214 - 37mm guns, 90 - 53mm guns, 15 - 120mm Krupp guns and 34 -120mm Gruson howitzers. The entrenched camp was manned by 3rd Fortress Artillery Battalion.

    The Cernavoda bridge-head was constructed on the right bank of the Danube to the south and east of Ceruavoda. It was built in the year 1900, and contained an armament of 53mm QF guns, 105mm Krupp guns and 87mm Krupp field guns.
    The works were arranged in three lines, and were divided into two groups by the railway line. The first line was 9 miles in extent and distant 35 miles from the railway bridge, and consisted of a line of infantry entrenched positions and redoubts. The second line had 6 batteries, 3 to each group, while the third line consisted of field artillery redoubts constructed to take 18 guns. The bridge-head was manned by a detachment of Fortress Artillery.


    From GENERAL STAFF, WAR OFFICE, Military Notes on the Balkan States, 1915, pages 20-24
    I take it that the 34 Gruson Werke 120mm howitzers were all of the special fortress type in a rotating armored turret/cupola? I am totally unaware of any Gruson 12cm field howitzers, however, there was a common Krupp series of 12cm L/14 QF howitzers that are known to have been exported to the Netherlands (M-1914), Norway (M-1909), Switzerland (M-1912) and Russia (in 122mm, the M-1909 g.). Turkey has been alleged from time to time to have had some of these 12cm QF weapons as well, which I would love if someone could confirm to me, as well as indicating what the Turks might have called them. I think you are saying that the other fortress guns 120mm, 150mm etc... were all in armored turrets and presumably were of Krupp origin?

    MCP написа
    This picture shows a Schneider-Canet 150mm Howitzer M. 1905 orderd by Rumenian army but assigned to Belgian Army at the beginning of World War 1. It was used during the siege of Antwerpen. This is the same howitzer used by Bulgarian Army. The shield was added to Bulgarian howitzers when they were improved.
    This appears to actually be the later 150mm Schneider M-1912 field howitzer, which was in effect identical to the Russian 152mm M-1910 g. (Schneider) field howitzer. The type fits the time frame also, as the modified M-1897/05 field howitzer was probably no longer in production by August 1914 and did not in the least resemble the weapon in this photo. Also, be careful how you throw the name "Canet" around in conjunction with the name of the Schneider company, which is correctly known in most circles as Schneider-Creusot. If I am not mistaken, "Canet" refers to a certain M. Canet who developed an experimental type of unusual coastal mounting for a large coast howitzer (270mm?) as well as an unusual hemispherical rotating breech block system taking cased ammunition, which was used on certain gun designs built by Schneider-Creusot (ie. the Italian 102mm cannone da 102/35 and 102/45 coast/anti-aircraft/ truck mounted guns and the French naval 90mm mle. 1924 anti-aircraft gun, among other pieces.) But if I am mistaken in this, please disabuse me.
    Last edited by SASH155; 30-12-2005, 07:32.

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  • SASH155
    replied
    MCP написа
    In 1914 at the outbreak of world War I Rumanian Army had:
    1 horse artillery regiments with 24 - 75mm Krupp M. 1904 and M 1907/12 QF guns
    25 field artillery regiments with 600 - 75mm Krupp M. 1904 and M 1907/12 QF guns
    (ASIK there were 396 - 75mm Krupp M. 1904 and 228 75mm Krupp M. 1907/12 QF guns)
    426 - 87mm Krupp M. 1886/97 slow firing field guns
    6 mountain artillery batteries with 16 - Krupp 75mm M. 1904 QF guns
    6 mountain artillery batteries with 24 - 63.5mm Armstrong slow firing guns
    3 mountain artillery batteries with 12 - 57mm Krupp QF guns
    5 field howitzers regiments with 120 - 105mm Krupp M. 1898/09 and M 1912 QF howitzers
    4 field howitzers division with 32 - 120mm De Bange M. 1878 field howitzers
    1 field howitzers division with 8 - 150mm Schneider-Creusot howitzers
    1 Siege Artillery Brigade with three regiment armed with:
    60 - 105mm Krupp, 150mm Krupp and 150mm De Bange heavy guns
    15 - 240mm Armstrong heavy guns and 210mm Krupp mortars
    1 fortress artillery regiments with 2 battalions (11 fortress and 2 depot companies)
    3 indipendent fortress artillery battalions (12 fortress and 3 depot companies)
    There were also 26 field artillery depot batteries, 1 mountain artillery depot battery, 105mm howitzers depot sections and a 150mm howitzers depot section.

    In august 1916 Rumanian Army could field 374 batteries, of whom 233 were armed with quick firing guns. In order to the strenght of quick firing field artillery most of the 53mm and 57mm fortification guns were removed from their positions, fitted with improvised carriages and issued to newly-raised batteries (6 armed with 57mm and 50 with 53mm Gruson QF guns). There were also 113 antiaircraft guns converted from field guns of various calibers (53mm, 57mm, 75mm).

    During the 1916 campaign Rumenian Army lost at least 450 guns and howitzers, of them almost 150 were captured by Bulgarian Army in Tutrakan (for Rumanian fortress see next post). Some other guns were captured in Silistria and during the pursuit to Bukarest. Since artillery materiel used by Rumanians was generally the same used by Bulgarian army, it is very likely that some of the guns captured were used by Bulgarians. I have at least one evidence of this, since Nikola Nedev in his book about Doiran adfirms that in 1918 1st Makedonska Brigade used two 105mm heavy guns captured in Tutrakan (page 243 of the french edition).
    Correction: the de Bange "150mm" gun was in fact a 155mm weapon, precisely the "canon de 155mm long mle. 1877".

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  • SASH155
    replied
    MCP написа
    In spring 1916 French Armee d’Orient had :
    36 Schneider-Ducrest 65mm Mle. 1906 quick-firing mountain guns
    154 Puteaux 75mm Mle. 1897 quick-firing field guns
    48 Schneider 105mm Mle. 1913 L quick-firing heavy guns
    56 De Bange 120mm Mle. 1878 L heavy guns
    56 De Bange 155mm Mle. 1881/1912 C howitzers
    24 Schneider 155mm Mle. 1877/1914 howitzers
    42 trench mortars

    In spring 1917 French Armee d’Orient had :
    49 Schneider-Ducrest 65mm Mle. 1906 quick-firing mountain guns
    160 Puteaux 75mm Mle. 1897 quick-firing field guns
    19 Schneider 105mm Mle. 1913 L quick-firing heavy guns
    56 De Bange 120mm Mle. 1878 L heavy guns
    40 De Bange 155mm Mle. 1881/1912 C howitzers
    35 trench mortars

    In autumn 1917 French Armee d’Orient had :
    99 Schneider-Ducrest 65mm Mle. 1906 quick-firing mountain guns
    241 Puteaux 75mm Mle. 1897 quick-firing field guns
    11 Schneider 105mm Mle. 1913 L quick-firing heavy guns
    60 De Bange 120mm Mle. 1878 L heavy guns
    35 De Bange 155mm Mle. 1881/1912 C howitzers
    66 trench mortars

    In spring 1918 French Armee d’Orient had :
    72 Schneider-Ducrest 65mm Mle. 1906 quick-firing mountain guns
    231 Puteaux 75mm Mle. 1897 quick-firing field guns
    11 Schneider 105mm Mle. 1913 L quick-firing heavy guns
    43 De Bange 120mm Mle. 1878 L heavy guns
    53 De Bange 155mm Mle. 1881/1912 C howitzers
    12 Schneider 240mm Mle. 1884 C howitzers
    42 trench mortars

    In autumn 1918 French Armee d’Orient had :
    100 Schneider-Ducrest 65mm Mle. 1906 quick-firing mountain guns
    244 Puteaux 75mm Mle. 1897 quick-firing field guns
    11 Schneider 105mm Mle. 1913 L quick-firing heavy guns
    60 De Bange 120mm Mle. 1878 L heavy guns
    38 De Bange 155mm Mle. 1881/1912 C howitzers
    65 trench mortars
    Corrections: The Schneider 155mm long Mle. 1877/1914 was a gun, not a howitzer. The so called "Schneider" 240mm Mle. 1884 "C" howitzers were in fact "Canon de 240mm long (de Bange) à tracteur mle. 1884", which were de Bange type ex-coast defense guns mounted on a St. Chamond built carriage and mount. There was no such weapon built by Schneider AFAIK, unless what you are referring to is the "Canon de 240mm long mle. 1884 sur affût-truc Schneider", and even this was a railroad gun, not a howitzer.

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