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Война между Грузия, Южна Осетия, Абхазия и Русия

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    #61
    Южная Осетия оценила число жертв в тысячи человек


    Представители Южной Осетии оценивают число погибших в ходе обстрела грузинской артиллерией и ВВС Цхинвали в тысячи человек. По словам главы информационного отдела южноосетинской части смешанной контрольной комиссии по урегулированию конфликта Инал Плиев, погибших "наверное, тысячи, потому что разрушено абсолютно все", сообщает "Интерфакс".

    "Били "Градом" (пусковая установка залпового огня - прим. "Ленты.Ру") по жилым кварталам, жилым домам, по больнице. Все предприятия и организации горят: школы, университет, министерство культуры, парламент. Разрушен городок миротворцев", - рассказал информагентству Плиев.

    Ранее из разных южноосетинских источников поступали сведения об огромных разрушениях в Цхинвали; по ряду оценок, город фактически полностью разрушен, уничтожены основные объекты инфраструктуры столицы непризнанной республики.

    Осетинские власти заявили, что грузинские войска почти полностью вытеснены из Цхинвали. В город вошла российская танковая колонна - эту информацию уже подтвердили представители Минобороны РФ.
    „Аз, Драгомир, писах.
    Аз, Севаст Огнян, бях при цар Шишман кефалия и много зло патих. В това време турците воюваха. Аз се държах за вярата на Шишмана царя.“

    Модератор на раздел "Военна Авиация"

    Comment


      #62
      Российский бомбардировщик сбросил бомбу на военный аэродром в Марнеули на юго-западе Грузии, повредив взлетно-посадочную полосу, сообщает "Новости-Грузии" со ссылкой на сообщение министерства обороны Грузии.

      Ранее сообщалось, что бомбы были сброшены на военную базу в Вазиани в 25 километрах от Тбилиси, а также на города Гори и Карели.

      По сообщению Первого канала, два усиленных батальона российской 58-й армии, вошедшие в Южную Осетию, развернулись в окрестностях Цхинвали и открыли артиллерийский огонь по позициям грузинских войск.
      Трол по списък.

      Comment


        #63
        Российская 58-я армия начала обстрел грузинских позиций

        08.08.2008
        Россия проводит наземную и воздушную операцию в республике

        Две танковых колонны 58-й армии РФ обогнули Цхинвали по Зарской дороге и Транскавказской магистрали и начали обстрел позиций грузинских военных. Об этом сообщает "Первый канал".

        Грузинские власти ранее утверждали, что объявят России войну в том случае, если войска РФ войдут на территорию Южной Осетии. Теперь, когда российская армия, по имеющейся инфомрации, ведет открытые бои с грузинскими военными, никаких заявлений об объявлении войны нет.

        Согласно информации из российских и осетинских источников, грузинские войска вытеснены из Цхинвали и продолжают отступление. Грузинские источники, ранее сообщавшие о том, что Цхинвали якобы находится под контролем грузинской стороны, о ситуации в столице непризнанной республики ничего конкретного не сообщают.

        Во время написания заметки агентство AFP привело слова представителей МВД Грузии, которые признали, что после обстрелов российскими войсками грузинской армии пришлось отступить из Цхинвали и "уйти из нескольких районов города".
        „Аз, Драгомир, писах.
        Аз, Севаст Огнян, бях при цар Шишман кефалия и много зло патих. В това време турците воюваха. Аз се държах за вярата на Шишмана царя.“

        Модератор на раздел "Военна Авиация"

        Comment


          #64
          ЦХИНВАЛИ, 8 августа. Российские войска заняли высоты вокруг Цхинвали, чтобы предотвратить дальнейшие грузинские атаки на город, сообщает из южноосетинской столицы лидер Евразийского союза молодежи Павел Зарифуллин.

          «В Цхинвали сейчас более тысячи трупов. Их убирают местные жители вместе с осетинскими военными. Трупы в домах, лежат на улицах, повсюду их огромное количество. Их выносят из разрушенных зданий. Я никогда такого не видел: похоже на хроники Великой Отечественной, на разрушенный Сталинград», – заявил Зарифуллин корреспонденту ИА «Росбалт-Юг».

          «Только что осетинская армия взяла грузинское село Кехи. Российские войска в Цхинвали не входят, стоят на подступах, заняли высоты над городом, чтобы предотвратить дальнейшие атаки с грузинской стороны. Перестрелки продолжаются: осетинская армия и ополченцы отстреливают остатки грузинских захватчиков», – добавил евразиец.

          Павел Зарифуллин добавил, что пытается отыскать в Цхинвали своих соратников-евразийцев, сражавшихся вместе с осетинскими ополченцами, но не знает, как это сделать в полностью разрушенном городе

          Comment


            #65
            Гледайте Russia Today TV. Занимават се само и единствено с войната. Има какво да се види и до някъде, чуе.
            Peace Through Strength -- Victory Through Devastation

            Comment


              #66
              Москва. 8 августа. INTERFAX.RU - Подразделения 58-й армии, которые находятся на окраинах Цхинвали, подавили грузинские огневые точки, обстреливавшие город и позиции российских миротворцев, сообщил "Интерфаксу-АВН" в пятницу помощник главкома Сухопутных войск РФ полковник Игорь Конашенков. "Огневые точки грузинских войск, которые обстреливали город Цхинвали и позиции миротворческих сил, были подавлены огневыми средствами артиллерии и танков подразделений 58-й армии, которые находятся на окраинах столицы Южной Осетии", - сказал И.Конашенков.


              "Грузинские войска, вошедшие в Южную Осетию, находятся в зоне поражения огневых средств подразделений 58-й армии. В дальнейшем любая стрельба в зоне ответственности российских миротворцев будет жестко пресекаться", - заявил помощник главкома Сухопутных войск.

              Comment


                #67
                Моля ви напишете нещо на български че ми е интересна темата а от Руски почти нищо не разбирам...

                Comment


                  #68
                  Депутат грузинского парламента Гия Тортладзе в эксклюзивном интервью LIFE.RU заявил, что уже через три часа грузинские войска обратно вернутся в Цхинвал:

                  - Мы однозначно расцениваем действия российских войск в Цхинвали как открытую войну между Россией и Грузией, потому что они не имели никакого права входить на наши территории, - говорит грузинский депутат. - Грузия расценивает вооруженный конфликт в Южной Осетии исключительно как войну с Россией. По иному квалицифировать действия российских войск невозможно, это уже начинается открытая война. У нас затишье лишь на три часа. Мы дали время, чтобы мирные жители могли покинуть горячую точку, чтобы военные сдали оружие. А через три часа наши войска вернутся в Цхинвали, и боевые действия возобновятся. Если войска не сдадут оружие, начнется то же самое, что было сегодня днем. Если сейчас миротворцы примут участие в боевых действиях - это уже будет открытая война между Россией и Грузией.


                  Трите часа май минаха...

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Ето на български: http://www.dnevnik.bg/show/?storyid=535772

                    Носят се слухове вече за хиляди убити, лошо.
                    "No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity."
                    "But I know none, and therefore am no beast."

                    (Richard III - William Shakespeare)

                    Comment


                      #70
                      И откъде тръгна всичко? Някой може да представи кратка хронология на събитията от последните няколко дни/седмица?

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Не е ясно засега. Осетинците казват, че грузинците нападали техни села, грузинците казват същото.
                        "No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity."
                        "But I know none, and therefore am no beast."

                        (Richard III - William Shakespeare)

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Тбилиси. 8 августа.
                          INTERFAX.RU - В результате воздушного удара, который осуществили российские самолеты по марнеульской авиабазе, есть погибшие и раненые среди обслуживающего персонала, сообщает МИД Грузии. Кроме того, в грузинском внешнеполитическом ведомстве заявляют, что несколько грузинских военных самолетов, стоявших на аэродроме, уничтожены. МИД Грузии также сообщил, что был осуществлен ракетно-бомбовый удар по территории аэродрома в Болниси.
                          „Аз, Драгомир, писах.
                          Аз, Севаст Огнян, бях при цар Шишман кефалия и много зло патих. В това време турците воюваха. Аз се държах за вярата на Шишмана царя.“

                          Модератор на раздел "Военна Авиация"

                          Comment


                            #73
                            20:33 (8 августа)
                            У штаба миротворцев в Цхинвали подбиты два грузинских танка
                            В столице Южной Осетии Цхинвали разрушены практически все дома, стрельба к настоящему моменту практически прекратилась, изредка на улицах слышны автоматные очереди.
                            Как сообщили «Интерфаксу» очевидцы, большинство жилых домов практически разрушены артобстрелами, часть горит, так как их никто не тушит.
                            Гостиница, в которой жили российские журналисты, также разрушена. На четвертом и третьем этажах разрушены стены, а также перекрытия между этажами.
                            Около штаба миротворцев, где сейчас находятся российские журналисты, стоят два подбитых грузинских танка, и около них видны тела грузинских военных.
                            Ситуация в Цхинвали ближе к вечеру нормализовалась с приходом в город частйе 58 армии.
                            В настоящий момент подразделения прочесывают город.
                            Российские журналисты по-прежнему остаются в расположении миротворческого контингента в Цхинвали. В ближайшее время будет решаться вопрос о выезде всех журналистов колонной в сторону Владикавказа.
                            Кроме того, все журналисты ожидают наступления темноты и новых возможных обстрелов города.
                            „Аз, Драгомир, писах.
                            Аз, Севаст Огнян, бях при цар Шишман кефалия и много зло патих. В това време турците воюваха. Аз се държах за вярата на Шишмана царя.“

                            Модератор на раздел "Военна Авиация"

                            Comment


                              #74
                              В столице Южной Осетии начались работы по поиску раненых под завалами зданий, разрушенных в результате массированного обстрела грузинской армии.

                              В 18 часов по московскому времени чрезвычайные службы получили возможность начать поисковые мероприятия под развалинами жилых и административных зданий Цхинвали.

                              Сейчас в Цхинвале полностью разрушена инфраструктура города, а отсутствие связи, отсутствие электричества создают массу сложностей для спасательных работ.

                              Сейчас в городе спокойно.


                              Междувременно Саакашвили твърди, че цялата Южна Осетия е под негов контрол...
                              „Аз, Драгомир, писах.
                              Аз, Севаст Огнян, бях при цар Шишман кефалия и много зло патих. В това време турците воюваха. Аз се държах за вярата на Шишмана царя.“

                              Модератор на раздел "Военна Авиация"

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Коцето написа Виж мнение
                                И откъде тръгна всичко? Някой може да представи кратка хронология на събитията от последните няколко дни/седмица?
                                The 2008 War in South Ossetia started in August 2008 after days of heavy fighting in the region. On 7 August, Georgian troops launched an operation to take the town of Tskhinvali, the capital of the unrecognized Republic of South Ossetia (internationally considered a breakaway region of Georgia). On 8 August, Russia responded by moving its troops across the border, reportedly bringing tanks and artillery into Tskhinvali, according to the President of Russia to "defend its civilians", most of whom hold Russian citizenship. The president of Georgia now alleges his country is defending itself from "Russian aggression" and that Russian forces are bombing its civilian population.



                                Background:

                                The region broke away from Georgia in the 1991–1992 war. A peacekeeping force with 500 troops each from Russia, North Ossetia-Alania (part of Russia) and Georgia monitors a 1992 truce. Today, most of the residents of South Ossetia hold Russian passports.



                                Timeline:

                                1 August – 7 August: "Sniper war"

                                Six people were reportedly killed and 21 injured as a result of one of the most intensive shootouts in years in the South Ossetian conflict zone late on 1 August and overnight on 2 August. Both sides have accused each other of opening fire first. On 3 August, the Russian government allowed South Ossetians to begin evacuation into Russia. On the first day, 20 bus-loads of refugees left the region.

                                Sporadic fighting continued every day since that event. On 6 August, shootouts increased and Georgia acknowledged it lost an armoured personnel carrier during the clashes. After a night of gunfire in which four people died, the shelling resumed at daybreak on Thursday 7 August. Residents were on the move, evacuating vulnerable areas of the South Ossetian capital. Georgia was reportedly moving tanks, artillery and troops to the border with South Ossetia.

                                However, by the close of Thursday, Mikhail Saakashvili had ordered a unilateral ceasefire. “A sniper war is ongoing against residents of the villages in the South Ossetian conflict zone and as I speak now intensive fire is ongoing from artillery, from tanks, from self-propelled artillery systems – which have been brought in the conflict zone illegally – and from other types of weaponry, including mortars and grenade launchers,” Saakashvili said in a live televised address made at 7:10 p.m. local time on 7 August. Up to 10 Georgian soldiers died in clashes on 7 August, the Georgian interior ministry reported.

                                7 August – 8 August: Georgian operation begins

                                The ceasefire was broken hours later. Georgia said it was beginning an operation to "restore constitutional order in the whole region." Interfax quoted South Ossetian leader Eduard Kokoity as saying his forces were confronting Georgians in the outskirts of the regional capital, Tskhinvali. "Fierce fighting is under way," he said. Georgian commander Mamuka Kurashvili, on the other hand, was quoted to have said, "Despite our call for peace and a unilateral cease-fire, separatists continued shelling Georgian villages. We are forced to restore constitutional order in the whole region." He did not specify the action Georgia planned to take but Tbilisi does not recognize the South Ossetian government and has pledged to restore its control over the province. On 7 August, hundreds of South Ossetian refugees crossed the border into Russia. At 00:53 on 8 August, Georgian forces began bombing the route along which refugees were being moved. At 02:47, Abkhazian leader Sergei Bagapsh said that volunteers are on the way to help the South Ossetians.

                                The United Nations Security Council held an emergency session in New York City and released a statement] to express "serious concerns at the escalation of violence." The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees reported 1,100 refugees arrived in North Ossetia by bus to escape the violence.

                                At 4:02 GMT, Russian media reports said Georgia had launched a tank-led attack on the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali, with at least 15 civilians killed by the shelling. At 04:45, Georgian State Minister for Reintegration Temuri Yakobashvili announced that Tskhinvali was nearly surrounded, and that Georgia controlled two-thirds of South Ossetia's territory. At 04:53, it was announced that an unspecified number of Abkhazian army units had advanced to the border of the arms limitation zone between Abkhazia and Georgia.

                                According to the North Ossetian president Taimuraz Mamsurov, a number of Sukhoi Su-25 aircraft of the Georgian Air Force attacked what he described to be a humanitarian aid convoy en route from Vladikavkaz. Mamsurov, who had accompanied the convoy and witnessed the attack, was unharmed. Earlier, he told the Interfax news agency that hundreds of armed volunteers from North Ossetia were heading to the Tskhinvali area.

                                8 August – present: Russia becomes involved

                                On the morning of August 8, Russian Prime Minister, Vladimir Putin, who was in Beijing attending the 2008 Summer Olympics, condemned the "aggressive actions" by Georgia and said that Russia would be compelled to retaliate. By 09:30, Russian president Dmitry Medvedev convened an emergency session of government officials to consider Russia’s options regarding the conflict.

                                A half hour later, Georgian sources reported that the three Russian Su-24 Fencer attack aircraft flew into the Georgian airspace and dropped two bombs close to a police station near the town of Kareli, which borders South Ossetia. The source also reported that the nearby city of Gori suffered a brief Russian air strike, with no casualties. Russian authorities rejected these reports, and they have not been independently confirmed.

                                By 11:40, Saakashvili mobilized the Georgian reserve troops amid what he referred to as "a large-scale military aggression" by Russia and called for Russia to stop "bombardment of the Georgian towns". Contending a Georgian report, the Russian Ministry of Defence denied that a Russian fighter plane had been shot down above Georgian territory, calling it "informational provocation". A spokesman for the Russian forces in South Ossetia said that Georgian shells directly hit barracks in Tskhinvali, killing several Russian soldiers.

                                Georgia reported that they offered a three-hour ceasefire starting 15:00 local time (11:00 UTC), to let civilians leave the besieged capital of Tskhinvali. However, at 10:29 UTC, Marat Kulakhmetov, commander of the Russian forces in the region, said that "these are further lies from the Georgian side. No corridor for civilians has been opened."


                                A column of Russian tanks from the 58th Army began moving to Tskhinvali to help support Russian forces in the area. Saakasvili said that the Russian column consisted of 150 tanks, armored personnel carriers, and other equipment.

                                Russian media reported that the Georgian army was falling back from Tskhinvali. According to Georgian TV channel Rustavy-2, Russian Su-24 bombers and Su-27 fighters are attacking Georgian army forces on territory of South Ossetia and that the airspace above Tskhinvali was entirely controlled by Russian planes Kulakhmetov said that as a result of heavy bombardment, Tskhinvali is almost totally destroyed. Gas pipes, a hospital, and other objects of infrastructure were hit. According to France Press, at 12:00 UTC the National Security Council of Georgia (through a statement of Council Secretary Alexander Lomaia) declared that if messages about Russian tanks in South Ossetia will be confirmed, Georgia will declare war on Russia.

                                At 12:14 UTC Russian tanks entered Tskhinvali, reported first by Russian media and later by CNN.

                                The Georgian Interior Ministry said that a Russian fighter dropped two bombs on a military base in Vaziani (near Tbilisi). According to Lenta.ru there are US military instructors there. At 16:55 UTC, Russian fighters bombed a military airfield in Marneuli, near Tbilisi.

                                Mikheil Saakashvili said that Georgia was pulling its 2,000-strong troops from Iraq.

                                At 12:24 UTC, Viktor Vodolatskiy, the Cossack ataman of the Don Republic, said that a "voluntary 429th Cossack division" will be created to help the fight in South Ossetia and that 450 people were already signed up.

                                About 13:30 UTC Eduard Kokoity, the President of South Ossetia, told the Interfax news agency in a phone interview, that the South Ossetian forces, together with volunteers, had recaptured parts of Tskhinvali and that the Georgians had suffered heavy casualties. However, Saakashvili has assured that Georgia is still in complete control of the city.

                                About 13:45 UTC Russian Ministry of Defence reported that Georgians had killed 10 Russian soldiers and wounded 30.

                                At 14:27 UTC Eduard Kokoity said that there are "hundreds of civilians killed in Tskhinvali" and called Saakashvili "a murderer." He also said that resistance was "mounting" in Tskhinvali and that four Georgian tanks had been hit in the railway station square.

                                At 14:53 UTC, South Ossetian Information and Press Committee reported that Russian armored vehicles had entered the northern suburb of Tskhinvali.

                                At 15:11 UTC, Georgian spokesman Shota Utiashvili said that "Russian armed forces are bombarding Tskhinvali" and that "We have lost control over some parts of the city". South Ossetian forces have begun to retake the city, with four Georgian tanks blown up in the city, the leader of South Ossetia's unrecognised government Eduard Kokoity said in a statement on the pro-South Ossetian website.

                                At 15:41 UTC, Georgia's Foreign Ministry claimed Russia has bombed Georgian military airfield Marneuli, damaging the runway, destroying several aircraft and wounding several airfield workers, as well as bombed the Bolnisi military airfield.

                                August 9

                                At midnight, Russia cut all air links to Georgia.


                                Humanitarian impact:

                                International Red Cross urged the combatant sides to make a humanitarian corridor to evacuate the wounded and civilians from Tskhinvali. The main city hospital is reported out of functioning, and ambulances can't reach the wounded. According to South Ossetia, Georgia continues to bomb the hospital. 22 wounded remain in the building, which has only two stories left.

                                Thousand of refugees are leaving South Ossetia, mostly for North Ossetia, says UN refugee agency.

                                Eduard Kokoity was reported as saying that the death toll has risen to 1400



                                Cyberattacks:

                                South Ossetian officials stated that two Ossetian news media sites were hacked. Dmitry Medoev, the South Ossetian secessionist envoy in Moscow, claimed that Georgia was trying to cover up reports of deaths.



                                Reactions:

                                International organizations

                                * NATO International Red Cross - The International Red Cross urged the combatant sides to make a humanitarian corridor to evacuate the wounded and civilians from Tskhinvali.
                                * NATO North Atlantic Treaty Organization - NATO's official website posted the following statment from the NATO Secretary General: "The NATO Secretary General, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, is seriously concerned about the events that are taking place in the Georgian region of South Ossetia and said that the Alliance is closely following the situation. The Secretary General calls on all sides for an immediate end of the armed clashes and direct talks between the parties"
                                * United Nations - On August 7, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon voiced grave concern over the escalation of violence and urged all parties to the conflict to "refrain from any actions that might jeopardize the situation further and pose threat to stability in the region". On August 8 at GMT 4 a.m. an emergency session of the UN Security Council was held to discuss the situation. The session was requested by Russia. The session failed to reach an agreement that would have called on Georgia and the separatists to immediately halt all fighting, but expressed its concern over the renewed conflict.

                                States

                                * Armenia - The Armenian Foreign Ministry said official Yerevan is closely monitoring the situation and urging the conflicting parties to call a halt to military operations.. “We are certainly concerned about the situation and hope that a solution will be found very quickly,” Deputy Foreign Minister Gegham Gharibjanian told RFE/RL. “We hope that the parties will make maximum efforts to quickly stop bloodshed and find peaceful solutions to contentious issues,” he said.
                                * China - China called for worldwide truce coinciding with the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing.
                                * Kazakhstan - Following Vladimir Putin's remarks, the President of Kazakhstan, Nursultan Nazarbayev, said "The Georgian leadership was not right when it failed to inform [other nations] on its actions toward South Ossetia and about higher tensions taking place there". Interfax also reported that Nazarbayev "agreed with Putin's view that countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States should make an assessment of the situation and undertake efforts to halt it".
                                * Lithuania - On August 7th, President of Lithuania, Valdas Adamkus, received a phone call from the President of Georgia Mikheil Saakashvili. Saakashvili asked Lithuania’s president to help inform heads of the European Union and other western states of the situation in the region. Adamkus assured that Lithuania would inform other European partners about the situation in Georgia and would seek adequate attention and assistance from the European Union in dealing with the situation. On August 8, Lithuanian Foreign Affairs Minister Mr. Petras Vaitiekūnas was sent to Georgia. He will be there to inform the EU partners about the situation in Georgia.
                                * Sweden - Swedish Minister for Foreign Affairs Carl Bildt said in a statement: "The way in which the situation in South Ossetia has deteriorated is cause for profound concern. It is extremely important that all those involved show restraint and play their part in bringing about a political solution," ... "I am particularly concerned about the impact of the conflict on civilians. Georgia and Russia are dangerously close to war and there is a great risk of this spreading to other parts of the Caucasus."
                                * Turkey - Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has said that the fighting is a grave concern for Turkey, which neighbors Georgia. Erdoğan has called for an immediate cease-fire and has said that he would call Georgian and Russian leaders to urge restraint if necessary.
                                * Ukraine - Ministry of foreign affairs of Ukraine called to all sides to stop fire immediately and to start solving the problem by negotiations. Ukraine has confirmed its position of support of Georgian territorial integrity and sovereignty. It was stated that Ukraine is ready to make its contribution to peaceful resolution of the region's conflict within the framework of international diplomatic efforts. Ukranian president Viktor Yushchenko, has sent his special representative Kostyantyn Yelisyeyev to Tbilisi as a result of phone conversation of Georgian President M.Saakashvili. The aims of the visit are consultations with Georgian authorities and representatives of OSCE, investigation of the situation in the region and presenting of the Ukrainian position on peaceful solvation of conflict.
                                * United Kingdom - The Foreign and Commonwealth Office states on its website 'We are monitoring developments in Georgia following news that there has been heavy fighting between Georgian forces and South Ossetian separatists.We urge an immediate ceasefire in the fighting in South Ossetia and for a resumption of direct dialogue between all parties.'
                                * United States - After the GMT 4:00 8 August UN Security Council meeting, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Daniel Fried, however, said it appeared that the South Ossetians were the provokers of the violence. Fried said, "We have urged the Russians to urge their South Ossetian friends to pull back and show greater restraint. And we believe that the Russians ... are trying to do just that."White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said on 8 August, "All sides should bring an immediate end to the violence and engage in direct talks to resolve this matter peacefully." United States Presidential candidate John McCain urged Russia to immediately withdraw from Georgia, said the United States should call for an emergency United Nations session, and called for NATO to "assess Georgia's security and review measures NATO can take to contribute to stabilizing this very dangerous situation."

                                Non-recognized states

                                * Abkhazia - On August 5, Abkhazia's separatist foreign minister, Sergey Shamba, announced that Abkhazia's army may open a second front against Georgia if it launched a full-scale attack against Ossetia.
                                Last edited by kris4o1993; 08-08-2008, 22:57.

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