Загубите на авиацията в Ирак

[Dinain]

Хм, това по всяка вероятност са случаите, в които екипажа докладва че е обстрелван. А дали това не включва и стрелба с леко оръжие?

[Пилот]

Доколкото разбирам включва всякаква стрелба - от 7.62 до ракети.

[1951]

Аз не бих се притеснявал за това дали са докладвани по-малко случаи на обстрел от действителните. По-скоро е обратноро - случаите са надписани. На страха очите са големи - за справка руснаците в Афганистан.

[Пилот]

На война може да се случи всичко - някои си мислят че стрелят по тях докато всъщност не е така, други така и не разбират че са ги пукали...
На мен все пак ми се струва че броят ПЗРК в Ирак е много малък - бях остнал с впечатлението, че Саддам е имал стотици такива Стрели и Игли, а всъщност от началото на войната едва ли има повече от 150 пуска. Сякаш много ракети са потънали.
А някой който разбира може ли да каже какви точно части на една ПЗРК трябва да се поддържат редовно - освен акумулатори има ли други чувствителни елементи нуждаещи се от ремонт или смяна?

[кало]

ГСН изисква определени условия на поддържка, използването на ракетите хич не е толкова лесно, колкото изглежда, и т.н., и т.н.

всъщност, подозирам, че много обстрели са забелязвани чак на земята - тук -там по някоя дупчица - нито ще ги видиш, нито ще ги чуеш в полет...

[Пилот]

British C-130 Destroyed in Iraq

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

British Hercules aircraft destroyed

Tuesday, February 13, 2007 A British Hercules aircraft was destroyed after it suffered significant damage during an "incident on landing" in south-eastern Iraq, the Ministry of Defence said today.

Two personnel suffered minor injuries in the incident, which happened in Maysan Province last night.

An MoD spokesman said the aircraft, which was on a routine mission, had to be destroyed by coalition forces after it was deemed too risky to try to recover it.

The MoD spokesman said: "The aircraft was significantly damaged during the landing.

"The site was secured and, after a thorough assessment of the damage, it was concluded that the aircraft could not be recovered without exposing our personnel to undue risk.

"There was also a potential risk that anti-Iraqi forces might obtain information on specialist equipment.

"The aircraft was therefore safely destroyed by multinational forces."

Британски С-130 е кацнал твърдо и се е повредил до таква степен, че е трябвало да бъде унищожен за да не попадне в ръцете на бунтовниците... (това изречение и аз не го разбрах съвсем...)
Не се казва какво точно е предизвикало кацането.

[1951]

ПЗРК е сложна оръжейна система и изисква определени периодични мероприятия за да е може да бъде използвана.
Най-важното обаче е че самата ракета има твърдогоривен ракетен двигател, което значи, че тя има, да го наречем срок на годност. След един момент нейните характеристики няма да са оптимални.

[Пилот]

Този път са свалили Блек Хоук, очевидци казват, че го е ударила ракета. Екипажът е бил спасен от втори хеликоптер, който е кацнал и ги е прибрал.

Baghdad, 21 Feb. (AKI) - A US military helicopter crashed north of Baghdad on Wednesday and an insurgent group has claimed that it brought the aircraft down. The US military says that the Black Hawk helicopter made a "hard landing" and that its 9 crew and passengers has been rescued by an other chopper. Eyewitness reports carried by local and Arab media suggested the helicopter was struck by a missile near the city of Taji, 40 km from the capital and one insugent group has claimed responsibility for bringing down the aircraft. A US military spokesman says the cause of the "hard landing" was not yet clear.

In a statement posted to the Internet, the Mujahadeen Army said: "At 10 am today the mujahadeen of the Ibn Taimiya Brigade, which forms part of the Mujahadeen Army, succeeded in downing a Black Hawk helicopter of the crusader occupation forces in the area of Taji, north of Baghdad. We will give you further details of the operation. "

According to eyewitness reports the helicopter was one of two involved in patrols in a rural area close to the American base at Taji.

[1951]

Щастливи копелета...
Да оцелееш след като са те шибнали с РПГ и са гърмяли по тебе с още какво ли не...
Доста хора са се напили здравата снощи по този повод.

...............

Oще един е свален.

9th U.S. helicopter crashes in Iraq

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-02/22/content_5763452.htm

　
　BAGHDAD, Feb. 22 (Xinhua) -- A U.S. helicopter crashed in an area north of Baquba City, 65 km northeast of Baghdad, on Thursday, the Qatar-based al-Jazeera satellite TV channel reported.

The helicopter went down in a clash between gunmen and U.S. troops, the report quoted witnesses as saying, without specifying location of the crash. confirmed, it would be the ninth U.S. helicopter crashed or shot down by insurgents' fire since Jan. 20, which has killed 28 soldiers and civilians so far.

The incident came one day after the U.S. military announced a Black Hawk helicopter was shot down by insurgent fire in the Nibaie area near the U.S. airbase of Taji, some 20 km north of Baghdad.

U.S. military spokesman Major General William Caldwell said that the initial indications appear that the helicopter was brought down by small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades.

An Iraqi Islamic militant group called Jaish al-Mujahideen claimed responsibility for the crash in a website statement whose authenticity could not be verified.

Въобще нещата станаха много кофти - вертолетите падат, използват се вече химически бомби от бунтовниците...

[Пилот]

Да оцелееш след като са те шибнали с РПГ и са гърмяли по тебе с още какво ли не...

Така е. Хеликоптерът ако ще да се разбива, но хората вътре да оцелеят. Тази война изби или развали сума ти и народ...

Американците слагат допълнителни топлинни капани, един демонстрационен CH-46 са го накичили като коледна елхичка, но още не ползват системата в Ирак.

US Marine Corps tests anti-missile system for Boeing CH-46 Sea Knight as Iraq helicopter shoot-downs mount

The US Navy has released a picture of a Boeing CH-46E Sea Knight helicopter testing an upgraded chaff and flare dispensing self-defence system.

The photograph was taken in December in the USA, but its release comes just two weeks after a US Marine Corps CH-46 was shot down north of Baghdad, Iraq on 7 February, killing all seven people on board.

The US Navy says it will not comment on aircraft survivability equipment and is unable to confirm whether the upgrade has been fielded to Iraq. The photograph shows dispenser boxes mounted aft of the nosewheel that are not seen on recent images of CH-46s operating in Iraq. There is also what could be a dispenser mounted above the rear sponson. Missile warning sensors are visible on the nose below the cockpit door and the rear fuselage above the ramp.

Mounted on the side of the aft rotor pylon, just above the engine exhaust, is what appears to be a “hot brick” infrared countermeasures system. This infrared jammer can be seen on CH-46s operating in Iraq, but is effective only against earlier generation heat-seeking surface-to-air missiles. More effective directed infrared countermeasures systems are operational on UK helicopters in Iraq, but not yet on US machines.

[1951]

Топлинните капани те спасяват само срещу ПЗРК от първо поколение - Стрела-2/2М/3 примерно. И то те спасяват ако ги пуснеш когато вече те обстрелват. А обикновенно те стрелят когато си обърнат със задницата си към лошите - тоест има доста добър шанс да не разбереш, че стрелят по теб до момента в който те ударят. Има хубави системи които предупреждават че е изтреляна ракета по теб, но те за сега са поставят само на най-новите машини. Другият вариант е периодично да изтрелваш капани, но и това не е решение - едно, че ще ги свършиш бързо и друго, че те предизвикват пожари на земята.

[Пилот]

Ако летиш непрекъснато на малка височина и над градове периодичното пускане на капани пак не върши работа - ще свършат твърде бързо... (и както ти каза, ще изпозапалят къщите на земята).
Всъщност знаеш ли какви точно ракети се ползват по американците?

[1951]

Абе основно става въпрос за кадърно и грижливо съхранявани Стрели и Игли останали от времето на Саддам.

[Пилот]

U.S. helicopter makes ‘hard landing’ in Iraq
Two crew members rescued; military says hostile fire didn’t cause crash

Updated: 3:07 a.m. ET March 1, 2007
BAGHDAD, Iraq - An Army helicopter made a “hard landing” in northern Iraq and preliminary reports indicated a mechanical problem, the military said Thursday. The two crew members were rescued unharmed.

The U.S. Army OH-58 Kiowa helicopter, mostly used in surveillance and light attacks, came down south of Kirkuk, a military statement said.

“Preliminary reporting shows the cause of the hard landing was mechanical and not hostile fire,” it said.

Една падала Кайова, екипажът е спасен. Твърди се, че причината е механическа повреда.

[1951]

Интересно материалче за загубите на UAV Predator и техните причини:

More Predators sought, but service short on crew
By Tom Vanden Brook - USA Today
Posted : Friday Mar 30, 2007 19:09:05 EDT

The Air Force has lost about 40 percent of its Predator unmanned aircraft and lacks enough trained crews to meet the demand for battlefield surveillance in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to military officials and analysts.

The Predator’s success in spotting enemy activity has become an important asset for troops in the field. Commanders ask for Predator surveillance three times more than the Air Force can deliver, said Lt. Col. Matthew Bannon, chief of unmanned aerial systems at Langley Air Force Base, Va.

This year, Predator flight hours are expected to exceed 70,000 hours, more than triple the total in 2003, the war’s first year.

“If you asked me if we had enough people — pilots, sensor operators, mission coordinators, etc. — I would tell you no,” Bannon said in an e-mail interview.

Of the 139 Predators delivered to the Air Force, 53 have been lost, records show.

The Air Force wants 22 more of the $4.5 million aircraft in the emergency war funding bill being debated in Congress this week, budget records show.

Bannon said there has been an “insatiable appetite for Predator” in the field. He says no missions have been scratched because of lost aircraft since he joined the program in 2003.

Predators can spot enemy troops and insurgents hiding improvised explosive devices, the homemade bombs that are the biggest killer of U.S. troops in Iraq.

Commanders leading patrols or convoys quickly become dependent on Predator surveillance, said John Pike, a military analyst at Globalsecurity.

Predators are particularly valuable against targets who emerge for a few moments and may disappear, said Christopher Bolkcom, a military analyst at the Congressional Research Service.

The aircraft’s sensors can detect quickly moving targets that can be attacked with its arsenal of Hellfire missiles, Bolkcom said.

“Chasing terrorists is a growth environment for Predator,” he said.

Predators “provide persistence over a target and precision fire, but they are not highly survivable,” says Loren Thompson, a military analyst at the Lexington Institution in Arlington, Va.

Iraq’s extreme heat is damaging Predators, according to Air Force budget documents.

“A more capable aircraft air conditioner is required,” the documents says.

Crew shortages are more troubling than downed aircraft, Bannon said. Crew members are trained at the Air Force Predator school, which graduated 105 crews in 2006. The Air Force expects 120 two-member crews to graduate in 2007 and 148 in 2008. It takes about three months to train a crew.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2007/03/gns_predator_short_070329/