Remarks on Оръжейни и прочее доставки...

[MCP]

I read always with great care this very interesting thread that is so closely linked with my own field of interest. :nworthy:

I have only two little correction on it:

in post 7 - 03.1891 : AFIK, Bulgaria ordered 30 120mm howitzers Krupp (five batteries) and not 18 (they arrived in 1903);

in post 8 - 31.10.1904 : AFIK, Bulgaria ordered 81 75mm Schneider-Canet batteries and not 91 (I think this is only a lapsus calami since the number of shrapnel bought is 230 x 324 guns).

And a confirmation:

in post 7 - 03.1891 : AFIK, Bulgaria ordered 54 not quick firing 75mm Krupp mountain guns.

I have also two questions:

предници = limbers
зарядни коли = ammunition wagons

Is it correct?

Thanks

[MCP]

Sorry, another question.
Please, can give me the traslation of палаши and тесаци ?

Thanks.

[dibo]

I read always with great care this very interesting thread that is so closely linked with my own field of interest. :nworthy:

I have only two little correction on it:

in post 7 - 03.1891 : AFIK, Bulgaria ordered 30 120mm howitzers Krupp (five batteries) and not 18 (they arrived in 1903);

I'm not sure. My sources claim 18. Maybe the misunderstanding is because the number of 120mm Krupp bought is 30 - 18 howitzers and 12 fortress guns. But this is just a speculation of mine, because I really don't know when the other 12 howtizers have been bought, as in 1912 the Bulgarian army indeed haf 30 120mm not QF howitzers.

in post 8 - 31.10.1904 : AFIK, Bulgaria ordered 81 75mm Schneider-Canet batteries and not 91 (I think this is only a lapsus calami since the number of shrapnel bought is 230 x 324 guns).

Corrected. Thanks once again.

And a confirmation:
in post 7 - 03.1891 : AFIK, Bulgaria ordered 54 not quick firing 75mm Krupp mountain guns.

Will check this. Thanks.

I have also two questions:

предници = limbers
зарядни коли = ammunition wagons

Is it correct?

Yes.

[MCP]

Thanks for the answers. Sometimes a picture is better than one hundred words! :tup:

But I have another question for Dibo.
In post 9 I read

137 000 патрона за картечниците

Is it correct this number? I think it is too low: it means less than 600 bullets x MG!
AFIK every MG had 6000 bullets in 1912.

[MCP]

According with Alexander VACHKOV, The Balkan War 1912-1913, p. 55, Bulgarian Army had 43000 cartridges to each MG, this means 9976000 cartridges. The numbers given by Vachkov are usually very close to what Dibo had written.

[MCP]

03.1907
B.A. commanded to Schneider :
- 9 mountain QF batteries (75mm) - each battery was equipped with four guns, 3200 shrapnells and 800 H.E. shells. The last delivery arrived in spring 1909;
- 9 howitzer QF (120mm) - each battery was equipped with four guns and 2000 shells;
- 6000 shells for 120mm Krupp howitzers;
- 3 ammunition wagons for every 150mm howitzer (72 munition wagons with 7200 shells).

I found this list and I think it may interest.

[dibo]

Thanks

[MCP]

I add also what I know about Bulgarian MG:

In 1889 Bulgarian Army bought one 10.66mm MG from Maxim-Nordenfeld Arms & Ammunition Co., Ltd. They were chambered for the 10.6 x 58mm rimmed Berdan cartridges and were used for trails (in Dibo’s post n° 7/05.02.1889 there are ten Maxim MG).
In 1907-08 Bulgarian Army bought 144 MG [Maxim M 1907] from Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken. They were 1901 pattern commercial Maxims chambered for the 8 x 50mm rimmed Austro-Hungarian ammo. They were mounted on wheels.
In 1910-12 Bulgarian Army bought 88 MG [Maxim M 1909] from Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken. They were the commercial derivative of the German Army MG08. They were mounted on tripod.

According with some sources, in 1905-07 Bulgarian Army did not buy a Schwarzlose, but a 8mm Škoda M 1909, a commercial MG tested also in China, the Netherlands, Peru, Romania and Turkey, even if only China adopted it.

[The Edge]

03.1907
B.A. commanded to Schneider :
- 9 mountain QF batteries (75mm) - each battery was equipped with four guns, 3200 shrapnells and 800 H.E. shells. The last delivery arrived in spring 1909;
- 9 howitzer QF (120mm) - each battery was equipped with four guns and 2000 shells;
- 6000 shells for 120mm Krupp howitzers;
- 3 ammunition wagons for every 150mm howitzer (72 munition wagons with 7200 shells).

I found this list and I think it may interest.

Guess who is interested the most?

[MCP]

I read last Dibo's post about weapons captured to the Turks in 1912-13: are you sure that the 75мм скорострелни полски оръдия are only 44 ? In every western sources I found 144 (or 143 guns)? And AFIK only during the Lozengrad battle the Turkish Corps alone lost 28 75mm QF field guns captured by Bulgarian Army and in Lule Burgas - Bunar Hissar Turkish Army lost further 42 75mm QF field guns captured by Bulgarian Army. :sm186:

[dibo]

Typo. Corrected. Thanks

[MCP]

Excuse me if I'm so pedantic, but this is the proof of the attention that I have for every your post.

1910
Доставени ? 120мм скорострелни гаубици "Шнайдер-Крюзо" ("Schneider-Creusot")
They are the howitzers bought in 1907 and arrived only in 1910.


09.1912
14 50мм Д/30 оръдия с 10 217 снаряда;
24 50мм Д/12 нескорострелни гаубици с 20 160 снаряда

They are the 150mm guns bought in 1891 and 150mm howitzers bought in 1897.

At the outbreak of Balkan War there were also 6 120mm L/25

As for the gun captured in 1912-13, there were also at least 11 (15 ?) QF Krupp mountain guns, 8 of them surrended with Yaver Pasha on 28 November 1912. Further mountains gun were captured by 7th Rilska Division marching to Solun.

Best

[dibo]

Excuse me if I'm so pedantic, but this is the proof of the attention that I have for every your post.

1910
Доставени ? 120мм скорострелни гаубици "Шнайдер-Крюзо" ("Schneider-Creusot")
They are the howitzers bought in 1907 and arrived only in 1910.


09.1912
14 50мм Д/30 оръдия с 10 217 снаряда;
24 50мм Д/12 нескорострелни гаубици с 20 160 снаряда

They are the 150mm guns bought in 1891 and 150mm howitzers bought in 1897.

At the outbreak of Balkan War there were also 6 120mm L/25

As for the gun captured in 1912-13, there were also at least 11 (15 ?) QF Krupp mountain guns, 8 of them surrended with Yaver Pasha on 28 November 1912. Further mountains gun were captured by 7th Rilska Division marching to Solun.

Best

Added and corrected.
"150mm howitzers bought in 1897." - ?? I have data only on 24 120мм "Schneider"s for 1897...

At the outbreak of Balkan War there were also 6 120mm L/25 - I'll check...

[MCP]

Added and corrected.
"150mm howitzers bought in 1897." - ?? I have data only on 24 120мм "Schneider"s for 1897...

At the outbreak of Balkan War there were also 6 120mm L/25 - I'll check...

In 1897 Bulgarian Army ordered to Schneider :
24 Schneider-Canet 120mm L/28 long gun M. 1897 [in one of my previous post I wrote by mistake M. 1895]
24 Schneider-Canet 150mm L/12 heavy howitzer M. 1897/05
18 Schneider-Canet 75mm mountain gun M. 1897 [the data that I posted are not correct]
SOURCE : Agnès D’ANGIO, "Schneider et cie et l’effort de guerre de la Bulgarie 1897-1914", Études Balkaniques, XXXVII (2001/1-2), pp. 38-47.

During Balkan Wars Shumenski Fortress Artillery Battalion mobilised 2 three-guns battery armed with 120mm L/25 Krupp heavy guns. During the siege of Odrin they were deployed in Western Sector.
SOURCE : Karl KLEINER, Die Belagerung von Adrianopel (Oktober 1912 bis März 1913), Wien, R.v. Waldheim, Jos. Eberle & Co. 1914

PS: In my thread Bulgarian Artillery in WW1 I made a lot of mistake. I'm trying to correct them, but I should rewrite entirely it. :x

[ZWQRA]

I add also what I know about Bulgarian MG:

In 1889 Bulgarian Army bought one 10.66mm MG from Maxim-Nordenfeld Arms & Ammunition Co., Ltd. They were chambered for the 10.6 x 58mm rimmed Berdan cartridges and were used for trails (in Dibo’s post n° 7/05.02.1889 there are ten Maxim MG).
In 1907-08 Bulgarian Army bought 144 MG [Maxim M 1907] from Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken. They were 1901 pattern commercial Maxims chambered for the 8 x 50mm rimmed Austro-Hungarian ammo. They were mounted on wheels.
In 1910-12 Bulgarian Army bought 88 MG [Maxim M 1909] from Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken. They were the commercial derivative of the German Army MG08. They were mounted on tripod.

According with some sources, in 1905-07 Bulgarian Army did not buy a Schwarzlose, but a 8mm Škoda M 1909, a commercial MG tested also in China, the Netherlands, Peru, Romania and Turkey, even if only China adopted it.

And ten (10) russian Maxim M1905 made in Tula Arms Plant. source: