Bulgarian Artillery in WW1

[SASH155]

For more info. on artillery in general in WW1 please see the "Landships" site, where there is alot on artillery. Also, does anyone have a photo of the Schneider 120mm M-1895 L/28 field gun above? I don't know what one even looks like. The reported 12 cm Krupp M-1895 L/30 gun in one of the photos above is too large (look at the shell) and is actually a Krupp 15cm M-1895 L/30 weapon. Wesley

[SASH155]

In my post n° 8 I listed fortress and siege guns in service in Bulgarian Army in 1915. From different sources I know that Bulgarian Army had 12 105mm heavy guns. Since the Austro-Hungarian Intelligence Feldbuch Die Bulgarische Armee September 1915 asserted that at that time Bulgarian Army had some "Schnellfeuerbelagerungskanonen Krupp 10.5 cm, Modell 1904", I wrote the data of that gun. I thought that it was the same gun bought in 1905 by Turkish Army and received in 1908. Now I find that the Turkish guns are of a different pattern. So if the Bulgarian 105mm guns were captured in Odrin, they were not M 1904. I could not verify when and how Bulgarian Army obtained its 105mm guns, therefore I decided to add the data of Turkish guns.


Gun model : Krupp 105mm QF Turkish
German designation : 10.5cm Belagerungskanone L/30
Calibre : 105mm L/30
Weight in action : 2835 kg
Tube Lenght : 3.150 m
Shell Weight : 16 kg
Muzzle Velocity : 530 m/s
Max. Range : 9250 m
Elevation : + 27° / -5°
Traversing angle : 4°
Remarks: Quick firing heavy gun with hydraulic recoil system, running-out springs, single-motion wedge breech mechanism, shielded.

:sm100: I understand that these guns were in fact Krupp 10cm Kanone 14 (actual cal. of 105mm of course, with a barrel length of L/35) which according to the author Franz Kosar were provided to the Bulgarians by the Germans shortly after the war began. There was in fact the earlier German 10cm Kanone 04, which he does not seem to indicate any exports for. The Turkish 10.5cm L/30 listed above was largely modeled on this earlier German gun. As for the Krupp 15cm M-1913 howitzer, this was not at all the same weapon as the German service 15cm sFH-13 (this weapon was, however, used by the Ottoman Turks during the war, and by the Swiss, who called it the sFH M-17) shown in the one of the photos above, but rather the commercial update of the earlier 15cm Krupp M-1906 field howitzer, better optimised for motor towing. The M-1906 was exported to Sweden (these had no shields) and Bulgaria (with shields). The above referenced Turkish 15cm L/14 field howitzer was largely identical to the M-1906, even though it appeared slightly earlier. Argentina also used a Krupp 150mm M-1904 field howitzer (actual cal. 149.1mm?), and seems to have been the first export customer for this type of weapon. The commercial Krupp M-1913 was built under license in Italy by Ansaldo and Vickers-Terni, hence the Italian origin of these weapons in Bulgarian service (I wonder if however Bulgaria might not have gotten some during the war directly from Krupp to supplement the earlier M-1906?) In Italy this howitzer was designated "Obice da 149/12 modello 1914A" and there were also modello 1916 and 1918 variants, with the mod. 1914 and 1918s produced in the most quantities. I suppose that it is perfectly possible that the Bulgarians received some small quantity of ex-German Army 15cm sFH-13s during the war, but it has to be remembered that its ammunition was not compatible at all with the stocks used with the then Bulgarian service 15cm field howitzers (Krupp M-1906, Schneider M-1897, Schneider M-1912). All the German service field howitzers used a 149.7mm shell, whereas the commercial Krupp export products fired a 149.1mm projectile. Please see my new article on these weapons to be posted shortly on "Landships" and Dominique LeMaire's "The Guns Of the Second World War" (lemairesoft.be). In it is a post war photo of what I believe are Bulgarian Army Pavesi P-4-100 artillery tractors towing Krupp 15cm M-1906 field howitzers. One other note: Russia did not use 150mm caliber weapons; theirs were chambered for 152mm. See the list above covering ammunition deliveries.

Well, you asked for it!


Serbian troops left Corfu Island without any artillery. There was THREE armies, 1st, 2nd & 3rd, each 2-division strong (4-regiment formations). At the region of Micra, east of Salonica, artillery units got their new equipment. There were not enough guns for all units, basically one group of modern 75 mm Schneider-Creusot Mle1912 and one group of old 80 mm De Bange Mle 1877 mountain guns per division.

During 1916 August-December battles, Serbian artillery was strongly supported with French heavy batteries. 11 guns were lost (some captured by Bulgarians), most of them during defensive fighting in August. Casualty rate was high, no new troops were available, so Army was re-formed: 3rd Army was cancelled, remain two armies were now 3-division strong, and divisions became 3-regiment formations, in accordance with French pattern.

During 1917. artillery was strengthened with new deliveries, each division fielded a three-group artillery regiment, mix of 75 mm field guns and 65 mm mountain guns (80 mm De Bange guns were revoked). Some heavy artillery was also obtained, but all of these guns were out-dated; these were used on Army level, together with few captured modern heavy pieces. Not surprisingly, additional French artillery support was essential for any large-scale fighting.

At the end of the war, Serbian artillery counted: (according to the French military attaché, December 1918)

- 57 pcs 37 mm infantry guns (Puteaux Mle 16)
- 48 psc 58 mm trench mortars (model N°2)
- 108 pcs 65 mm mountain guns (Puteaux Mle 06 "Alpine" gun)
- 4 pcs 70 mm mountain guns (old Serbian Schneider-Creusot M.07)
- 4 pcs 75 mm mountain guns (captured, probably Krupp guns)
- 112 pcs 75 mm field guns (majority Schneider-Creusot Mle 12, some old Serbian M.07/07A, some captured)
- 16 pcs 120 mm light howitzers (Mle 1890 "Baquet" with short-recoil system, still slow-firing gun)
- 16 pcs 120 mm heavy field guns (report says "type Schneider", but probably Mle 1878 De Bange)
- 16 pcs 155 mm heavy howitzers (report says "type Schneider", but probably Mle 1881 De Bange)

:sm100: The 120mm Schneider field guns that the French D.A. listed may have in fact been actually the Schneider "Canon de 120mm long L/28 Mle. 1897" which was the exact same weapon as the Bulgarian 120mm Schneider M-1895 L/28 field gun. Serbia took delivery from Schneider-Creusot (not "Cresuot" or whatever someone said above) of 16 of these guns and Bulgaria received 24. The Serbs also had 120mm long mle. 1878 de Bange field guns that were delivered largely prior to the war. By this point in the war, needless to say, the Serbs did not have alot of heavy guns of any type left. The 155mm howitzers were likely the Schneider C17S, quantities of which France provided towards the end of the war and post war as well to the new Yugoslav army. The 120mm Baquets were probably hand-me downs from French army stocks, replacing lost Schneider 120mm M-1897 and M-1911 field howitzers.

[SASH155]

Gun model : Skoda 150mm QF M. 1914/1916
Austrian designation : 15cm Hubitz M 14/16
Calibre : 150mm L/14
Weight in action : 2765 kg
Tube Lenght : 2.100 m
Shell Weight : 42 kg
Muzzle Velocity : 340 m/s
Max. Range : 7900 m
Elevation : + 70° / - 5’
Remarks :
Quick firing heavy field howitzer. It was also converted for mountain transport, divided in four loads. Following Austro-hungarian exemple, German Army converted 7.7cm FK 96 n/A, 10.5cm lFH 98/09, 15cm sFH 02, sFH 13, 10cm K 04 and 10cm K 14. They were all transported in two loads: tube and carriage (later three loads). In the picture are shown the solution adopted for 15cm sFH 02.

:not: I think you had better take a real close look at the color (autochrome?) photo of what is purported to be the Skoda 15cm M.14 or M.14/16 field howitzer. It is in fact of a Russian Putilov 152mm M-1909 g. field howitzer. Look particularly at the cradle details and the shield, and compare with the other photos that were posted in the same thread. I was not aware that Bulgaria received any of these howitzers, if so when and app. how many did she get? I just recently discovered that Turkey had some when I was working on my article on this very weapon. See my upcoming article on these howitzers on "Landships" or lemairesoft.be.

[SASH155]

In spring 1916 French Armee d’Orient had :
36 Schneider-Ducrest 65mm Mle. 1906 quick-firing mountain guns
154 Puteaux 75mm Mle. 1897 quick-firing field guns
48 Schneider 105mm Mle. 1913 L quick-firing heavy guns
56 De Bange 120mm Mle. 1878 L heavy guns
56 De Bange 155mm Mle. 1881/1912 C howitzers
24 Schneider 155mm Mle. 1877/1914 howitzers
42 trench mortars

In spring 1917 French Armee d’Orient had :
49 Schneider-Ducrest 65mm Mle. 1906 quick-firing mountain guns
160 Puteaux 75mm Mle. 1897 quick-firing field guns
19 Schneider 105mm Mle. 1913 L quick-firing heavy guns
56 De Bange 120mm Mle. 1878 L heavy guns
40 De Bange 155mm Mle. 1881/1912 C howitzers
35 trench mortars

In autumn 1917 French Armee d’Orient had :
99 Schneider-Ducrest 65mm Mle. 1906 quick-firing mountain guns
241 Puteaux 75mm Mle. 1897 quick-firing field guns
11 Schneider 105mm Mle. 1913 L quick-firing heavy guns
60 De Bange 120mm Mle. 1878 L heavy guns
35 De Bange 155mm Mle. 1881/1912 C howitzers
66 trench mortars

In spring 1918 French Armee d’Orient had :
72 Schneider-Ducrest 65mm Mle. 1906 quick-firing mountain guns
231 Puteaux 75mm Mle. 1897 quick-firing field guns
11 Schneider 105mm Mle. 1913 L quick-firing heavy guns
43 De Bange 120mm Mle. 1878 L heavy guns
53 De Bange 155mm Mle. 1881/1912 C howitzers
12 Schneider 240mm Mle. 1884 C howitzers
42 trench mortars

In autumn 1918 French Armee d’Orient had :
100 Schneider-Ducrest 65mm Mle. 1906 quick-firing mountain guns
244 Puteaux 75mm Mle. 1897 quick-firing field guns
11 Schneider 105mm Mle. 1913 L quick-firing heavy guns
60 De Bange 120mm Mle. 1878 L heavy guns
38 De Bange 155mm Mle. 1881/1912 C howitzers
65 trench mortars

Corrections: The Schneider 155mm long Mle. 1877/1914 was a gun, not a howitzer. The so called "Schneider" 240mm Mle. 1884 "C" howitzers were in fact "Canon de 240mm long (de Bange) à tracteur mle. 1884", which were de Bange type ex-coast defense guns mounted on a St. Chamond built carriage and mount. There was no such weapon built by Schneider AFAIK, unless what you are referring to is the "Canon de 240mm long mle. 1884 sur affût-truc Schneider", and even this was a railroad gun, not a howitzer.

[SASH155]

In 1914 at the outbreak of world War I Rumanian Army had:
1 horse artillery regiments with 24 - 75mm Krupp M. 1904 and M 1907/12 QF guns
25 field artillery regiments with 600 - 75mm Krupp M. 1904 and M 1907/12 QF guns
(ASIK there were 396 - 75mm Krupp M. 1904 and 228 75mm Krupp M. 1907/12 QF guns)
426 - 87mm Krupp M. 1886/97 slow firing field guns
6 mountain artillery batteries with 16 - Krupp 75mm M. 1904 QF guns
6 mountain artillery batteries with 24 - 63.5mm Armstrong slow firing guns
3 mountain artillery batteries with 12 - 57mm Krupp QF guns
5 field howitzers regiments with 120 - 105mm Krupp M. 1898/09 and M 1912 QF howitzers
4 field howitzers division with 32 - 120mm De Bange M. 1878 field howitzers
1 field howitzers division with 8 - 150mm Schneider-Creusot howitzers
1 Siege Artillery Brigade with three regiment armed with:
60 - 105mm Krupp, 150mm Krupp and 150mm De Bange heavy guns
15 - 240mm Armstrong heavy guns and 210mm Krupp mortars
1 fortress artillery regiments with 2 battalions (11 fortress and 2 depot companies)
3 indipendent fortress artillery battalions (12 fortress and 3 depot companies)
There were also 26 field artillery depot batteries, 1 mountain artillery depot battery, 105mm howitzers depot sections and a 150mm howitzers depot section.

In august 1916 Rumanian Army could field 374 batteries, of whom 233 were armed with quick firing guns. In order to the strenght of quick firing field artillery most of the 53mm and 57mm fortification guns were removed from their positions, fitted with improvised carriages and issued to newly-raised batteries (6 armed with 57mm and 50 with 53mm Gruson QF guns). There were also 113 antiaircraft guns converted from field guns of various calibers (53mm, 57mm, 75mm).

During the 1916 campaign Rumenian Army lost at least 450 guns and howitzers, of them almost 150 were captured by Bulgarian Army in Tutrakan (for Rumanian fortress see next post). Some other guns were captured in Silistria and during the pursuit to Bukarest. Since artillery materiel used by Rumanians was generally the same used by Bulgarian army, it is very likely that some of the guns captured were used by Bulgarians. I have at least one evidence of this, since Nikola Nedev in his book about Doiran adfirms that in 1918 1st Makedonska Brigade used two 105mm heavy guns captured in Tutrakan (page 243 of the french edition).

Correction: the de Bange "150mm" gun was in fact a 155mm weapon, precisely the "canon de 155mm long mle. 1877".

[SASH155]

In 1913, at the end of Interallied War, in Rumania there were two great systems of fortifications :
1. the forts around Bukarest which convert the capital to a great entrenched camp.
2. the works constructed on the line of the River Sereth, directed against an advance from the east and northeast.
In addition, in Dobrudja there was a bridge-head at Cernavoda guarding the railway bridge over the Danube.
In 1914-16 some guns and howitzers were used to arm the newly aquired fortress of Silistria and the so-called Tutrakan bridge-head, to build the siege artillery batteries and to reinforce divisional artillery with 53mm QF guns.

The fortifications of Bukarest consisted of 18 detached forts with 18 intermediate batteries, situated at an average distance of 9.5 km from the centre of the town. The total perimeter was around 72 km. The forts were commenced in the year 1885, and completed and fully armed in 1896. The original scheme was prepared by General Brialmont, but it was considerably modified in order to reduce the cost. A circular railway, with a military road and a telegraph or telephone line alongside, conneced all the forts.
The forte are situated as follows :
- on the left bank of the Dambovita river: Chitila, Mogosoia, Otopeni, Tunari, Stefanesti, Afumazi, Pantelimon, Cernita and Cotzelu.
- on the right bank of the Dambovita river: Leordeni, Popesti, Berceni, Jilava, Broscariu, Magurele, Bragadir, Domnesti and Kiaina.
The works were of six different types, and their armament varies accordingly. They were constructed to resist high explosives, and armour has been largely used. The majority bave dry ditches. The intermediate batteries were armed with 120mm guns and howitzers. The armament of the forte consisted of 150mm guns, 210mm howitzers and 53mm quickfiring guns. All were mounted in turrets or cupolas, the 150mm guns in pairs, the remainder singly. As a rule, the forts had 3 - 150mm guns, 3 / 4 howitzers, and 4 / 6 quick-firing guns.
The works was manned by Fortress Artillery Regiment with headquarters at fort Chitila. The fortifications were commanded by the Governor of Fortress of Bukarest, in august 1916 Div.Gen. Mihail Boteanu.

The fortified line of the Sereth, covering a front of about 72 km, consisted of the entrenched camps of Galatz in the southeast and Focsani in the north-west respectively, and of the bridge-head of Nomoloasa at the centre.
The fortifications were commenced in the year 1889 on a plan prepared by Major Schumann of the Gruson Works, and were completed in 1893.
The fortified region was commanded by of a general of division, in august 1916 Div.Gen. Petre Nasturel with headquarters at Galatz. Many of the guns in 1914 were moved from the forts in order to arm the Siege artillery Regiment.

The fortifications of Galatz are on the left bank of the Danube, at some distance from the river. There were 10 groups of works arranged in 3 lines with frontal and flank defence. The total extent of front was 14.5 km.
The names of the groups are Sereth, Sendreni Malina, Barbosi, Smardan, Covureni, Filesci, Trajan, Raves and Brates.
There were a total of 51 batteries. The armament of the first and second lines was composed of 53mm. QF guns, the guns of the first line were on travelling carriages mounted in concrete emplacements in groups of three, those of the second line were mounted in small disappearing turrets, six being grouped together to form a battery. The third line had armoured batteries of 120mm Gruson howitzers mounted in pairs, but three batteries had three howitzers, and one battery four. The works were manned by 1st Fortress Artillery Battalion.

The Nomoloasa works were upon the left bank of the Sereth. The bridge-head covered several bridges, and barrred the Jassy-Galatz road and railway.
The works, arranged in two lines, consist of 8 groups situated about 9.5 km from the town of Nomoloasa with a total extent of front of 11 km. There was an interval of about 1,000 to 1,400 yards between the groups, each of which had 2 / 3 batteries in the first line and 2 in the second line. There were a total of 30 batteries.
The names of the groups were: Calieni, Serbanesti, Tecusi, Calmatnin, Mikai-Braoul, Tudor Vladimerescu, Galati and Conachi. The armament was 53mm QF guns on travelling carriages, in the first line, 3 for each group, and 120mm howitzers in pairs in armoured turrets for the second line. The total armament was 72 - 53mm guns and 16 - 120mm howitzers. The works were manned by 2nd Fortress Artillery Battalion.

The entrenched camp of Focsani was on the right bank of the River Putna, a tributary of the Sereth, and barrred the
road and railway Roman-Buzeu-Bucharest. The general trace of the works is a semi-circle, with a total extent of about 21 km, and distant about 6.5 to 9.5 km from Focshani.
The works are arranged in 3 separate lines giving frontal and flank defence, and numbered 71 batteries, distributed in 15 groups and 1 independent group (first line - 41 batteries, second and third line 15 batteries each).
The names of the groups were Odobeshti, Vrancea, Pancia, Baia, Marasesci, Resbviene, Furceni, Petresce, Venatori,
Putna, Jorasti, Siefan Cel Mare, Mandresti, Braila, and Milcov. The works of the first line were converted emplacement armed with 37mm QF guns on travelling carriages, each battery having five guns. The second line was armed with 53mm QF guns in disappearing turrets arranged 6 to a battery. The batteries of the third line contained one 120mm Krupp gun and two 120mm howitzers. The independent group to the north-west of Focshani, covering a crossing over the River Putna, contained 4 Gruson 120mm howitzers.
The total armament was 214 - 37mm guns, 90 - 53mm guns, 15 - 120mm Krupp guns and 34 -120mm Gruson howitzers. The entrenched camp was manned by 3rd Fortress Artillery Battalion.

The Cernavoda bridge-head was constructed on the right bank of the Danube to the south and east of Ceruavoda. It was built in the year 1900, and contained an armament of 53mm QF guns, 105mm Krupp guns and 87mm Krupp field guns.
The works were arranged in three lines, and were divided into two groups by the railway line. The first line was 9 miles in extent and distant 35 miles from the railway bridge, and consisted of a line of infantry entrenched positions and redoubts. The second line had 6 batteries, 3 to each group, while the third line consisted of field artillery redoubts constructed to take 18 guns. The bridge-head was manned by a detachment of Fortress Artillery.


From GENERAL STAFF, WAR OFFICE, Military Notes on the Balkan States, 1915, pages 20-24

I take it that the 34 Gruson Werke 120mm howitzers were all of the special fortress type in a rotating armored turret/cupola? I am totally unaware of any Gruson 12cm field howitzers, however, there was a common Krupp series of 12cm L/14 QF howitzers that are known to have been exported to the Netherlands (M-1914), Norway (M-1909), Switzerland (M-1912) and Russia (in 122mm, the M-1909 g.). Turkey has been alleged from time to time to have had some of these 12cm QF weapons as well, which I would love if someone could confirm to me, as well as indicating what the Turks might have called them. I think you are saying that the other fortress guns 120mm, 150mm etc... were all in armored turrets and presumably were of Krupp origin?

This picture shows a Schneider-Canet 150mm Howitzer M. 1905 orderd by Rumenian army but assigned to Belgian Army at the beginning of World War 1. It was used during the siege of Antwerpen. This is the same howitzer used by Bulgarian Army. The shield was added to Bulgarian howitzers when they were improved.

This appears to actually be the later 150mm Schneider M-1912 field howitzer, which was in effect identical to the Russian 152mm M-1910 g. (Schneider) field howitzer. The type fits the time frame also, as the modified M-1897/05 field howitzer was probably no longer in production by August 1914 and did not in the least resemble the weapon in this photo. Also, be careful how you throw the name "Canet" around in conjunction with the name of the Schneider company, which is correctly known in most circles as Schneider-Creusot. If I am not mistaken, "Canet" refers to a certain M. Canet who developed an experimental type of unusual coastal mounting for a large coast howitzer (270mm?) as well as an unusual hemispherical rotating breech block system taking cased ammunition, which was used on certain gun designs built by Schneider-Creusot (ie. the Italian 102mm cannone da 102/35 and 102/45 coast/anti-aircraft/ truck mounted guns and the French naval 90mm mle. 1924 anti-aircraft gun, among other pieces.) But if I am mistaken in this, please disabuse me.

[SASH155]

Gun model : 24 pounders long gun
Calibre : 152.39mm L/21
Weight : 2108 kg
Weight with breech mechanism : 2235 kg
Weight in action : 4500 kg
Weight of the platform : 1370 kg
Tube Lenght : 3.230 m
Shell Weight : 29 kg / 30.7 kg / 35.1 kg / 35.8 kg
Case shot Weight : 35.2 kg
Shrapnel Weight : 34.9 kg
Muzzle Velocity : 325 m/s
Max. Range : 5300 m
Remarks : Russian bronze long gun supplied in 1877-78; it seems that in 1906 Bulgarian Army had ten 24 pdrs long or short guns.


Gun model : 24 pounders short gun
Calibre : 152.39mm L/14.3
Weight : 1435 kg
Weight with breech mechanism : 1533 kg
Weight in action : 3500 kg
Weight of the platform : 1370 kg
Tube Lenght : 2.180 m
Shell Weight : 29 kg / 30.7 kg / 35.1 kg / 35.8 kg
Shrapnel Weight : 34.9 kg
Muzzle Velocity : 225 m/s
Max. Range : 3800 m
Remarks : Russian bronze short gun shipped in 1877-78; it seems that in 1906 Bulgarian Army had ten 24 pdrs long or short guns.


Gun model : 24 pounders mortar
Calibre : 152.39mm L/9
Weight : 1425 kg
Weight with breech mechanism : 1572 kg
Weight in action : 3400 kg
Weight of the platform : 1200 kg
Tube Lenght : 1.350 m
Shell Weight : 29.7 kg / 30.7 kg
Muzzle Velocity : 231 m/s
Max. Range : 3600 m
Elevation : + 45° / -°5°
Remarks : Russian bronze mortar shipped in 1877-78; it seems that in 1906 Bulgarian Army had 4 of such mortars.

:not: The last photo in this series is actually of a German Krupp 15cm sFH-93 field howitzer, which may look somewhat like the 24 pounder short gun, but they were in fact totally different. The 24 pounder (152mm) short gun was designated the M-1867 g. and is actually the gun which can be seen mounted on the field mount shown on top of the pedestal in one of the photos (it was also used as a fortress gun on a different type of mount); the long gun, however, is not here at all. It was considerably larger, and was designated the 6 inch (152mm) M-1867 g. 190 pud. In addition there was a later 6 inch (152mm) M-1883 g. "mortar" (field howitzer) which was really just another member of the later M-1877 series of artillery pieces. I have photos of all these types that I took in St. Petersburg several years ago and I also have several Russian language sources that clarify matters considerably, even though my Russian is poor.

[MCP]

First, thanks for so many interesting corrections and considerations.
Mine is a work in progress and I'm sure there are a lot of mistakes (I have already correct some of them) andevery help is greatly welcomed (expecially about Russian artillery).

Now I try to give some answers.

To post 121:

Also, does anyone have a photo of the Schneider 120mm M-1895 L/28 field gun above? I don't know what one even looks like.

Unfortunately I have not. I'm still looking for it.

The reported 12 cm Krupp M-1895 L/30 gun in one of the photos above is too large (look at the shell) and is actually a Krupp 15cm M-1895 L/30 weapon.

Thanks.


To post 122:
Some problems arose from a Bulgarian point of view:

If I understand correctly Bulgaria received before WW1 three kinds of 150mm heavy howitzers:
Krupp M-1906, Schneider M-1897, Schneider M-1912.
The problem is that AFIK in 1915 Bulgarian Army had only 24 howitzers Schneider M-1897 and 14 howitzer of a different kind, that was obtained after 1912 (since at the beginning of the Balkan War, there were only the Schneider M-1897 ones). This is the problem. :sm186:

As for 10cm guns, the probem is :
Germany really delivered to Bulgaria some 10cm guns shortly after the war began, they may be 10cm Kanone 14, but if Germany deliverd them only after the war begun, they may be the Turkish guns captured in Odrin. In fact I'm not sure that Bulgarian Army captured any of these guns, but ASIK it captured 14 heavy howitzers. This makes even more confused the problem of the 150mm howitzers.

Russia did not use 150mm caliber weapons; theirs were chambered for 152mm.

Yes, if I wrote differently, it was a lapse.

[MCP]

To post 123:
Thanks. I found that photo in and Артилерийска материална част в Българската Армия 1878-1990, Sofia 1998, p. 36. I thought that this book was accurate.
As for Putilov howitzers and in general for Russian guns, Bulgarian Army may have captured some of them in Romania or/and have received some from Germany. I Know that Germany sent some Russian guns for the defence of Bulgarian coastline. But I have not many informations about Russian guns.

To post 124:
I agree with every your word. I think I copied wrongly from my sources.

To post 125:
Yes. Another lapse.

To post 126:

I take it that the 34 Gruson Werke 120mm howitzers were all of the special fortress type in a rotating armored turret/cupola?

AFIK, yes.

I am totally unaware of any Gruson 12cm field howitzers.

Me too.

This appears to actually be the later 150mm Schneider M-1912 field howitzer, which was in effect identical to the Russian 152mm M-1910 g. (Schneider) field howitzer. The type fits the time frame also, as the modified M-1897/05 field howitzer was probably no longer in production by August 1914 and did not in the least resemble the weapon in this photo.

Thanks. My knowledge of Rumenian artillery is not great.

Also, be careful how you throw the name "Canet" around in conjunction with the name of the Schneider company, which is correctly known in most circles as Schneider-Creusot.

I found everywhere Schneider-Creusot (from the place of the factory) or Schneider-Canet (from the name of the designer (like Schneider-Danglis or Schneider-Deport).

[dibo]

To post 123:
Thanks. I found that photo in and Артилерийска материална част в Българската Армия 1878-1990, Sofia 1998, p. 36. I thought that this book was accurate.

Actually it is not, as most of it is based on photoes from the Military History Museum in Sofia and unfortunately the guys working there are mostly administrators and not reasearchers and the descriptions they put on the guns there are not accurate.

BTW, this is a very good discussion and I will join as soon as I can.

[MCP]

To post 125:

The last photo in this series is actually of a German Krupp 15cm sFH-93 field howitzer, which may look somewhat like the 24 pounder short gun, but they were in fact totally different.

Thanks again. My source was again Артилерийска материална част в Българската Армия 1878-1990.
But can I ask that you correct my datas for Russian old pattern guns (and if possible add some pictures)? I'm not well informed about Russian artillery, expecially about XIX century guns. :sm186:

Thanks

[MCP]

I corrected some of the mistakes. Thanks to SASH155.
Unfortunately there are still a lot of point not clear!

[SASH155]

I corrected some of the mistakes. Thanks to SASH155.
Unfortunately there are still a lot of point not clear!

:tup: Thanks for taking my advice on these. One additional note: That Schneider 150mm M-1912 howitzer (similar to the Russian 152mm M-1910 g.) was the one exported to Bulgaria and Serbia as well as to Romania. These were probably the 14 150mm howitzers you are wondering about that were delivered between 1912 and 1915, just barely in time to make it into the war. In addition it makes absolutely no sense to me that it would be the "Boche" who transferred captured ( by whom? and where and what was Odrin?) Turkish 10cm L/30 field guns to Bulgaria. After all, the Turks were an ally of Germany (and incidentally Bulgaria after 1915), and I am sure that they would have taken umbrage that the Germans transferred to a third party any guns they had duly ordered from Krupp. Did Bulgaria possibly capture these 10cm L/30 guns directly from the Ottoman Turks during the Balkan Wars of 1912-1913? Due to what Franz Kosar says, I still believe Bulgaria took delivery directly from Germany (in 1915 or early 1916?) of new build or ex-German Army 10cm K-14s just as they took delivery of several ex-naval 15cm K i.R. L/40s and L/45s for coast defense (see the L/40 and L/45 guns in Varna or the L/45 at the museum in Sofia). Also, you are right that "Canet" frequently shows up in connection with Schneider, but it is far from clear to me when "Canet" was used (probably only when his design elements were incorporated on a piece) instead of just simply Schneider-Creusot or even Schneider "tout court". Do not forget to look at my further notes on French arty in Salonika that I wrote yesterday. And also take note of my comments on the 15cm Krupp M-1913 howitzer. As far as the Russain ordnance goes, I will have to write up something as well as scan my photos as they are still in print form. Glad to be of service; don't neglect to look at Peter Kempf's fairly new "Landships" forum where I have posted quite a bit on artillery from all nations, including Bulgaria.

[MCP]

Excuse me, Odrin is Adrianople. The fortress was conquered by Bulgarian Army in 1913 and there Turkey had its 18 10cm guns and 18 15cm howitzers.
I know that Germany sent a lot of guns to Bulgarian after the beginning of WW1 (for Bulgaria October 1915), the problem was about was sent before the war. BTW do you know anything about a 75mm Schneider mountain not quickfiring gun that Bulgaria acquired in 1897 (I believe this since it is a M. 97 gun)?
I saw the Landship site, that is really interesting. :tup:

[dibo]

Unfortunately I was not able to find adequate informations about Bulgarian coast artillery. So I only list here what I could know, hoping that anybody add what is missing in my account.
In 1888 Bulgarian Danube Flottilla received by Russian Army five 65mm guns (I think they were built by Schneider, since this is a typical French calibre, often used in ships armed with Schneider guns).
In 1897 Bulgarian Black Sea Fleet obtained two 240mm L/45 Schneider guns, that were put at Evkinograd in order to defend the prince’s palace there and to protect the Varna bay from ennemy fleets’ raids.
At the beginning AFIK Bulgarian coast artillery had only these seven guns to defends the coastline. Since Turkish fleet had the full controll of Black Sea, coastal defences were reinforced with 13 batteries delivered from the Shumen (2nd) and Vidin (3rd) fortress battalions.
In order to increase the defences of Varna Bay the two 100mm guns of torpedo gunboad Nadezhda were removed from the ship and given to coast artillery, but in November 1912 they were mounted on the ship again.
During the war Turkish Navy made some raid along Bulgarian coastline, shelling the ports and sometimes landing little detachments, that were always easily repelled. The liberation of Thracia caused a lot of problem to Bulgaria, since it had to defend the Aegean Sea coastline, even if it had not even a little ship there. Turkish Fleet tried to take advantage of its superiority landing X Provisional Corps (31st and 32nd Infantry Division with 15.000 rifles, 16 machine guns and 48 guns) at Sarkoi in order to overtake Bulgarian 4th Army deployed in the Gallipoli peninsula. This amphibious invasion failed thanks to the reaction of Macedonia and Odrin Volunteer Corps (February 8 and 9, 1913).
At the end of the war Dedeagach and Portolago harbours were defended with a little group of 120mm and 150mm guns from fortress artillery.
At the outbreak of the World War the of Bulgarian coast artillery was not better than in 1912. It is very unlikely that in 1912-15 Bulgaria could obtain new coast guns, so in order to defend the Black Sea and the Aegean coastlines there were only about twenty guns, most of them coming from fortress artillery. Consequently two 100mm guns of torpedo gunboad Nadezhda were removed from the ship. I don’t know where they were placed, but during the war there was a battery of two 100mm guns at Balchik. I don’t know wether they were the guns from Nadezhda or there were other 100mm guns in service with Bulgarian Artillery at that time.
During the war German Army delivered some 254mm and 152mm Russian guns and in 1916 Burgas was reinforced by a new battery and Varna by two new batteries. In mid 1916 Bulgarian Navy obtained also four 87mm improvised anti-aircraft guns.
In 1918 most of the 312 guns of Bulgarian 4th Army were used for coast defence (according with Stefan Noikov, Belomorska otbrana alone had 97 guns). 4th Army used also some guns captured in Greek Thracian fortress.

Some corrections - in 1906 the contract with Schneider was for 2 240mm and 2 100mm guns. The two big guns arrived in late 1909 and were put in a specially prepared (however badly chosen and built) fixed position. Big drawback of the guns was their limited range of fire - 10.5 km. The 2 100mm guns were ''Ship'' type (maybe smiliar to those on "Nadezhda"?) according to the Bulgarian documents and were storaged until 09.1912, when these two along with the 2 100mm guns from the "Nadezhda" formed two additional 100mm batteries to defend the Varna harbour. 13 batteries with 26 old guns (most likely old Russian or Krupp guns of the 1870-s vintage, given that thier recorded range was 3 km.) from the Schumen and Vidin fortress battalions plus 1 65mm and 1 56mm guns supplemented the defense of Varna coastline during the 09.1912.
In 1916 several two-guns batteries were formed from captured guns (150mm and 250mm). Also 3 230mm Russian mortars captured in Serbia were installed near Galata.